Another Rain Pant thread

Bob, you are going to get quite few responses I think, each one reflecting a viewpoint that may or not be similar to yours…I will be first :)

I don’t bushwhack or slide down rocky mountain sides in rain pants…I hike trails.  I have had, and loved for many years an early pair of Golite Reed pants. 2.5L and ~4.5oz in size XL.  I have worn them for many days straight in steady rain and they never failed me. If had to replace them I would try to find a pair of NOS, which is likely an exercise in futility as they have not been made for a couple years now.  Having (assumedly) failed at that, I would likely replace them with the Montbell Versatile pants as they get great reviews and seem the most similar thing currently on the market.

I don’t know the temps you hike but I made a cuban kilt and love it. Shoes get wet, lower legs get wet, but its going to happen. From the waist to my knees stays dry. Best solution i have found for temps to about 40 degrees.

I had a pair of Golite Reeds but they are about shot so I just bought a pair of Mont Bell Peak Shell pants (4.6oz).  They are light and 3 layer but loud and crinkly.  I have yet to test them in the field.

I had a pair of Precips at one time but they were quite heavy at around 10oz.

John H.;Brad: +1 on the old original Golite Reeds (before the zippered cuffs).

I carry (and use) my rain pants on every hike. They’re great in actual rain (which doesn’t happen often). They EXCEL when walking past the very cold, wet brush that not only lines most of the PCT and CT, but which also STAYS wet for many hours after the rain has stopped. Many are the days when I put them on before leaving my tent in the morning and only remove them after I’m back in it for the night. Not only do they help keep my legs dry(er) and warm(er), they also provide abrasion protection from the brush.

I never leave home without them. And yes, my socks and shoes do get wet. Even  full-on gaiters won’t prevent that.

thanks all for the posts so far.  Keep them coming if there is more feedback.  I’d still be interested in experiences with the more mainstream choices i listed, although 4-5oz does sound better than 9-10oz any day. Montbell Versalight and Peek Shell pants seem to be the currently available rain pants mentioned in this category, and only slightly more than the ones I mentioned.

I usually hike in shorts or some rail-rider eco mesh pants I’m really digging – also great for the dewy brush since they dry fast, and my choice for hotter weather.  But there are cooler days even in SoCal when I’d rather having something warmer and waterproof.  Kilt looks…interesting, but I’m not there yet.

My approach to this (and any gear) is to ask:

1. What functionality am I after?
2. What gear specs will give me that?
3. What products have these specs?

With light rain pants there’s two general ways you can go functionally. You can opt for really light pants (3 – 4.5oz) with low denier fabrics and a thin membrane that will be good for occasional on trail use but not great bushwacking or for extended use, or you can opt for pants that are a bit heavier (5-7oz) that use tougher fabrics, thicker membranes and maybe 3 layer construction for extended durability and hopefully waterproofness. Obviously rain pants really exist on a continuum, but it’s worth thinking about what type of use you expect.

Examples of “occasional use rain pants” are the Montane Minimus, Montbell Versalite pants and departed favourite, the GoLite Reeds. All of these are 15-30D fabrics so they work fine on trail, but you can rip them pretty easily hopping logs. Typically these pants have quite thin membranes, so they can be waterproof when they’re new but that usually doesn’t last very long. The Reeds were an exception to this, because I think GoLite made them less breathable (I regret selling mine). For most really light pants, the combination of really thin membrane + high breathability (e.g. Montane Minimus) means they’re not likely to be waterproof for long. I used to own the Minimus pant and after 5-10 decent uses the water came right through (please don’t buy these or anything with Pertex Shield+). I don’t put any stock in HH ratings because lots of membranes seem to have high HH numbers but degrade really quickly because they were made super thin in futile pursuit of high breathability specs.

I don’t really value breathability at all any more. I’ve just been burned so many times that I now view rain gear as all being about the same. I’d much rather have waterproof rain gear that doesn’t really breathe, than more breathable gear where this rain comes right through. Sacrificing waterproofness to gain breathability never made much sense. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever owned anything WP/B that I found reliably waterproof after >2 years of regular use (although one eVent jacket did come close).

So anyways, preference is for a bit tougher rain gear but with the weight kept down via a minimal feature set and slim fit. Pockets, zippers and fly’s add weight and they’re extra spots for water to get in. After some looking, the best pants I could find are the Haglofs LIM Proof Pants. They’re 6.4oz and all the weight is in the fabric and waist band. They use tougher 40D fabrics, don’t promise sky high breathability and lack all features except a good looking waist band. I found a good deal on some for $67 (eBay link below, but most sizes are gone now).

http://www.haglofs.com/de/en/Pants/L-I-M-PROOF-PANT-MEN/p/602503.2C5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291358335374?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=590517843148&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

My hope is that they’ll hold up for a while but my guess is they’ll probably last for a few years and then start leaking. For this reason my current preference is to buy Gore-Tex rain gear so I can warranty it when it inevitably leaks. I would have considered paying more for Haglofs higher end Gore-Tex take on light rain pants (LIM III pants), but they got to feature crazy with it (full length zips) so they’re 8oz. If someone made some Gore-Tex PacLite/Active pants with no features like the Haglofs LIM Proof pants I’d be interested. I’m in the market for a jacket and Haglofs LIM III Jacket

Dan,

I too was looking for a simple “golite reed” style Gore Tex pant that was in the 5-6oz range, but all of them that I found were full of more bells and whistles.  Mont-Bell does have a GT Packlite pant that is 6oz, but it has a fly and ankle zips.

If only Montbell would nix the fly and zips on the Torrent Flier and put that weight into a tougher face fabric. I don’t think I could make a 12D face fabric last long enough to put the GoreTex warranty to use. As is, they’re basically the same weight as the Haglofs LIM Proof pants but with 12D face fabric instead of 40D.

note that if yr going to use it in the winter with snow shoes, crampons or other such … get a full size zip so you can take em on/off without taking everything else off

;)

In SoCal, I would think a cuben skirt would be ideal.  I carry one in moderate temperatures.  It’s very light, easy to don, and keeps you dry down to the knees.  The ventilation makes it comfortable.  If you are worried about fashion while on the trail, scratch that idea.

I colder weather, I use a pair of GoLite Reeds I picked up on gear swap.  If I was looking for a new pair, I would look at what Luke’s ultralight has available.  I think he has some eVent ones at a reasonable weight.  I have had good luck with eVent in other items.

Borah Gear is supposed to be releasing a pair of waterproof breathable rain pants this upcoming Tuesday.  Made of a Polartec fabric, about 4.3 ounces, and starting at $55 for the cheapest version.  Sounds like these might be worth checking out.

I really like this way of thinking. It’s all about finding that perfect balance.

I’ve had Haglöfs Lim I paclite trousers for 8ish years. Stopped being totally  waterproof after 6. I’m still looking for new trousers.

I’ve started a thread about this myself before, and I’m leaning towards the 3 layer Event trousers from Luke’s Ultra lite. Mainly because I can order them long.

I’ve thought about the kilt (not a skirt mind you), but I’m leaning more towards the tougher fabrics for abrasion resistance.  Kilts would not suffice in that case – nor anything delicate in the scrub we find around here – even on many trails.  When there’s no chance of rain you just get scratched if wearing shorts or have something that can take it – like the eco-mesh pants so far.

I definitely don’t need the pockets or fly, but lower ankle zips seem like a reasonable compromise.  I would not rule out pants that have these and are still light.  I do a lot of weekend trips and in SoCal you can usually predict the weather well enough to know if it will be cold or rainy (that’s when I would bring these).  I do hope to hit the Sierra more the next few summers, with afternoon rain and cooler nights, and these may be the only long pants I bring so again some durability is important.

Montbell Thunder Pass pants with 40D 3-layer at 9.1oz for $69 should seem to join my original group.  The Hagloff LIM Proof pants with 40D 2.5 layer at 6.3oz at $110 is another good option.  I also see the Luke’s Ultralight 3-layer seemingly custom-made at 7.2oz and $130. We’ll see what Borah Gear announces for specs and price (presumably neoshell?) Thanks for the pointers to all of these brands, but you are making my decision tougher.

My reasoning is, that it’s worth carrying 0.9 oz for going from 2.5 layers to 3 layers. I really don’t like the clammy feeling in 2.5 layers. But I haven’t been dissatisfied with the paclite trousers from Haglöfs. But an upgrade Is always nice. Especially since I often use rain trousers over shorts, so it’s skin against raintrousers.

I’ll be ordering the trousers from Luke’s soon. I’ll report back.

I use Montane Minimus WP pants and they are great. Before them I had two pairs of Mountain Hardware swift pants and they were great also. I saw that kiwi brand Macpac have just released a UL smock and matching pants in the new Pertex Shield + fabric called the Hightail Pants which could be worth considering.

Good luck,

Lawrie

Nice to see Borah gear is going to offer rain gear that is light and affordable.

I haven’t had great luck in the past buying clothes from smaller makers because it’s hard to manufacturer complex shapes that match the human body, so smaller makers typically simplify their designs into something that doesn’t fit quite as well but are easier to sew. For example, both the Luke’s Ultralight and Borah Gear rain pants lack articulated knees. Hopefully as they get production nailed down they can continue to refine the shape.

the folks on UK climbing have had durability issues with event … as have had a few BPLers (westcomb, montane)

as a note rain pants need to be more durable than rain jackets especially if its less than a perfect trail (scrub, log/boulder hopping, etc) …. ive gotten rips even in my dead bird alpha SVs and not from overly hard use

personally i would get something with a very good warranty …. rain gear has a good chance of delaminating or leaking even if mildly used in a few years ….

the additional warranty from goretex doesnt hurt either

;)

I have had 2 occurances of eVent delaminating, on a pair of MLD eVent rain mitts, which I didn’t contact MLD, and an Integral Designs jacket, to which I contacted Rab (who had bought ID) to see if there was anything to do to stop it and they quickly offered a replacement.  I was very happy with the quality of service Rab provided.  I sold the new jacket with only a couple of trips under its belt due to me wanting to try something different.

Have there been other durability issues with eVent, other than some delaminating?

I have had 3 Gore Tex jackets and used two of them HARD.  One got to the point where the DWR didn’t refresh well and I am still using the other one, but it’s DWR is shot and I am going to re-apply before summer hiking.  While the breathability of Gore Tex (especially Packlite) is sub par, I have found it very durable.  You rarely ever hear of delamination issues with Gore Tex – I think I have only read of one in the past four or five years, while I have read about dozens of proprietary delaminations and probably a dozen or more eVent delaminations.

For example, both the Luke’s Ultralight and Borah Gear rain pants lack articulated knees. Hopefully as they get production nailed down they can continue to refine the shape.

Good point.  It does seem like articulated knees would be something that is relatively easy to add.

Eric, Dan and Brad. You all make good points. My experiences are similar regarding eVent and Goretex. I do trust goretex more. But usually I find that the price of eVent garments are low enough to make them competable to similar Goretex garments.

As of now, my favorite shell jacket is the Arcteryx Tecto FL. Gore Active shell. 3-layer, minimalist, lightweight, great fit, seemingly durable (compared to the gram comp pull over from Haglöfs which is also Active shell, but feels very fragile). BUT, there doesn’t exist matching trousers for it.

Dan, I agree on the fitting from cottage firms. They look too simple. I wouldn’t order a jacket, but my guess is that it could work better on trousers.

I have great news. While writing in this thread, I’ve been corresponding with Luke from Luke’s UltraLite.

Yes, you can order articulated knees.  20 dollars.

They’ll receive an order from me.

Peter, check out the Haglofs LIM III Jacket. It’s pretty comparable to the Tecto FL (face fabric, GT Active, 3 layer) but it’s about 1oz more because of a longer cut, thumb loops and chest pocket. They’re both really nice.

Dan, thank you. It’s good to have alternatives, since Arcteryx have stopped production of any goretex active garment. There will always be the need for a replacement Jacket in the future.

Dan, do you know if Haglöfs have made shell trousers in the same series with the same face fabric, active shell and light?

The LIM III Jacket is 8.5oz but appears to use GT Packlite.   I haven’t seen any garments recently with GT Active and I think they quit selling the standard active and the new  GT Active is the shell without a face fabric.