Alternative down jacket options?

Your question is unclear. Perhaps because you are not sure what do you really want to ask. Your post comes off as if a bit unprepared as far as MET and insulation ratings are concerned.

I’ve tried to read reviews and charts/data on insulation values.

What does this mean?

That you tried to find such charts and could not – or that you found them but were unable to comprehend them?

Have you Google searched by “Nisley” site:backpackinglight.com?

.UNIQLO DOWN JACKETS/HOODIES . many discussions over the years and a lot of praise especially for such a great price

I’ve read the debates. I’ve seen the charts and the pictures of insulation distribution for different jackets. I’ve read about concerns with QC and down moving around in baffles, or overfill/underfill jackets. Different people have reported that one jacket or another is warmer in their opinion only to be contradicted by another’s impression.

It’s not clear to me at this point which options provide the best value in terms of warmth/cost or at what point lightweight is a detriment to the durability of the jacket.

There are theories about the effect of loft, or calculations of warmth based on fill weight/fill power ratio.

And most of these discussions are from 2010-2014…and as we all know, this market changes rapidly. Plus most of the major side by side review sites only rate the major brand makers, not the smaller volume outfits like Feathered Friends.  This means there may be other options I’m not even aware of.

Buying and trying them all is not an option for me. What I do know is that the 60g fill Nano Puff is not quite as warm as I would like. However, I do think I still want water resistant down if possible.

I’ve searched and found that finding a 12oz, affordable, jacket that can keep you warm to 15F is impossible to come by. I ended up on a Montbell Frost Line Parka. It’s affordable due to the 800FP it uses. But it has box baffles, a durable face fabric (for a puffy), and the feature set of a true winter Parka. And with 7oz of down, it will keep me warm down to 15F and if I layer it correctly, much lower.

Thanks Link. I did see mention of that brand. I’ve been trying to research it. I’m a little unclear on the exact weights…and reading the material description it seems like it’s a combination of down and synthetic fill? I couldn’t find a down fill weight or fill power.

It mentions: “An aluminum film lining adds extra warmth.”

They are definitely inexpensive! I’m a little nervous jumping in without knowing more about them. I am curious how the warmth compares to a Nano Puff and what the actual weight is.

And most of these discussions are from 2010-2014…and as we all know, this market changes rapidly. Plus most of the major side by side review sites only rate the major brand makers, not the smaller volume outfits like Feathered Friends.

Not really. Down is down, other than fill weight. I have lived in a desert for almost 40 years, so I get cold easily. I have a Montbell UL and a Patagonia Down Sweater. Neither will keep me warm when stationary at 15F. I need a much heavier jacket with more fill, period. Sometimes when sitting around my night campsite I might wrap a quilt around me too.

Simon: Thank you. I was worried I might be looking for a unicorn even though some of people seemed to claim otherwise. To be fair, I’m not expecting the jacket to keep me warm to 15F by itself. I would likely be wearing a base layer + R1 and a windshell on top. If for some reason I can’t make a fire, I’ll set up camp while my meal cooks, eat it and then get in my sleeping bag. I don’t normally go out below 15-25.

I didn’t make it clear before, but I do have a Montbell Frostline Parka…but it’s warmer and heavier than I need or want to bring with me. If I have to though, I can I guess.

Nick: Thank you. Good to know.

in the link I provided

FYI, my size medium down hooded jacket weighed in at ~8.9oz, and it was probably my favorite piece of gear on the PCT this summer.

Since you were looking for value and it was not included in your list I thought I would trow it out there, I don’t own one but have several friends that do( I have several custom Nunatak Skaha down hoodies, not cheap and a Stoic Hadron cheap and very nice too bad they are not made anymore)The friends that do have them love them and have had no problems.

I do have an a Montbell Ex Light that I have had for a number of years and a Feathered Friends Helios that I bought on close out( I live in Seattle and go occasionally to their store) the list goes on but I am satisfied with the Nunatak and Hadron and should sell the rest.

Link, can you tell me a little more about it? The weight and price are right that’s for sure. How does it compare for warmth to some other jackets in the lightweight category? Do you notice that the “foil layer” is effective?

I don’t own one but will ask around as it is friends that have them.

cool. Thanks!

Here is BPL member PMAGS review for TRAIL GROOVE online magazine from a couple of years ago

At the temps you are dealing with, something like the montbell alpine light or montbell mirage would fit your needs. A little heavier but worth it. Good to wear in your sleeping bag for unexpectedly cold nights.

Personally for stationary at 15 degrees, I would be looking at something with 10 ounces of down fill, but I can get cold super easily. It’s hard to make personal recommendations because everyone is different in their insulation needs.

2 oz fill down jackets like the Patagonia UL and Montbell Exlight will be a bit warmer than 60g/meter Primaloft. They’ll hold that warmth well, while Primaloft will degrade relatively quickly.

For a good jump in warmth I’d bump up to the 4oz fill category. The Montbell Frost Smoke is a good option. My favorite currently is the BD Hot Forge Hoody, which can still be found deeply discounted in some sizes.

I don’t think DWR down does all that much. I wouldn’t use it as a prominent buying feature. The down/primaloft hybrids are pretty effective, but the jury is still out on longevity.

I don’t have a ton of experience with winter backpacking…and I’ve been fairly lucky the last couple years as my trips ended up mostly in the 20’s with the occasional windchill of teens. I managed that fine with my current clothing options – a little chilly at camp, and a little hot on the trail. I do want to do more winter trips this year and possibly higher altitude trips at some point.

If I did pick up something with 4oz fill, at what temperature range would you recommend using this? I realize that everyone has a different comfort level, but I’m thinking a rough estimate. My sleeping bag ratings seem to be accurate for me comfort wize.

I’m just looking for some experienced feedback. It would be nice if all the options were listed with total weight, fill weight, and adjusted for fill power rating.

My Nano Puff with just a 150wt t-shirt had me sweating with basic work around the campsite this past weekend which hit the mid to low 40s. But as I drop down to 20’s, I start to lose range with it, even layering. However, I haven’t tried pairing it with the R1.

I switch from a ~4oz class down coat to a massive (12oz fill) down parka when nighttime lows will be consistently in the single digits (F).

One of these days I’ll get to live by the mountains and backpack in the freezing cold! :)

I did find this 11.5 oz 700 fill parka, but they don’t list the fill weight: (it’s on sale for $125)

http://www.camp-usa.com/products/essential-outerwear/1399-camp-essential-ed-atom-jacket/

for your temps youll want 6+ oz of 800+ down fill at minimum … preferably much more

15F doing nothing requires more insulation than 15F doing camp chores (walking around and moving)

;)

check out Rab…awesome European company with great down jackets.

the continuum hoodie is 12.5 oz w/ 5 oz 850 fill hydrophobic down. 1 chest and two hand pockets, drawcord hem and hood, pertex quantum gl fabric. the best down jacket i have ever had between 2 and 10+ oz down. pricey at about $350, but i got mine closer to $200 on clearance earlier this year.

i can vouch for this jacket down to the teens with a similar fleece from mountain equipment and a wind jacket, and up to high 40s with a light base…by far my most used down jacket. and Rab in general makes great products–i have a couple down pieces, a synthetic, some base layers, and rain pants–all solid stuff.

check sizing and go by the chest measurement on their charts. i am a solid medium in most US companies and mostly large in Rab. because its a slim fit i get a little extra length in the sleeves and hem, but not too much, and i like the extra coverage.

Crux and Jottnar are two other English brands with some down jacket choices. The Jottnars pack down into a stuff-sack, I’m not sure about the lighter Cruxs. I have experience with heavy down jackets from both brands and the quality is excellent.

Cumulus is Polish (where a lot of the better down comes from) and often mention on EU ultralight forums.

If you order from the UK or Poland make sure you get them to take the 20%+ VAT off.

Stick with the Frostline or get a Mirage, or get an Eddie Bauer.

Whatever you get, make sure it fits over everything else, belay style, so you can throw it on quickly when stopping and then remove it and stuff it quickly when ready to move again.

Mentioned earlier was that the clothing was a little cold in camp and then hot when on the trail. I hope that ‘a little hot on the trail’ did not include the down parka. As a general rule, rarely if ever do you want to be wearing your down while hiking — that is one layer that is critical to keep dry, and body vapor will quickly swamp down in that situation, rendering it almost useless.

If one is a little hot on the trail in the winter, the answer for that is easy; ventilate using zippers, remove hats or gloves, or remove layers. Overheating is the biggest problem in winter and the easiest to solve, yet I can’t even count the times I’ve seen folks sweating like government mules, and it is always totally unnecessary.