A Word Of Caution Regarding Luke's Ultralite

[Nick B]

I have always heard good things about Luke’s Ultralite. Even a search of the internet turns up nothing negative, which is why this surprises me so much.

According to one of the parties involved, there are some extenuating circumstances. I don’t know if that is true or not but I have been exceptionally patient, offering my sympathies on multiple occasions. I have allowed them ample time and opportunity to make this situation right but we are now 8 weeks overdue on this order, the refund I was promised has not materialized, and I now get no response to my emails. At this point, I am feeling very ripped off.

I would advise anyone thinking about doing business with LUL to wait a while. Perhaps they will get their act together. Perhaps, we will start to see a bunch more incidents like this one.

I have opened a claim with PayPal. Hopefully I get my money back.

For anyone interested in the details, I will provide them below.

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After many emails back and forth with Luke hashing out the details, I made payment for a custom “half quilt” on 12/27/2017. I was told that the lead time was currently 4.5 – 5 weeks.

On 02/06/2017, 6 weeks after placing my order, I received an email from Luke’s brother Mark who apparently handles customer relations.   The email reads as follows:

“Good evening Nick and thanks again for choosing Lukesultralite.  Your order has been cut and sewing will begin.  It should be mailed this weekend or by Monday.  Have a wonderful evening!!

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

They’re running a little behind. No big deal.

 

On 02/23/2017, 10 days after I was told it would ship, I send an email to Mark inquiring about the order, since 10 days is plenty of time for even FedEx to get the package to me. No response. So I send another email on 02/25/2017.   I receive this response the following day, 02/26/2017:

 

“Nick  I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you.  Luke was involved in an auto accident and is recovering. He will be sewing your order this week.  We greatly appreciate your patience. Thanks so much!!

 

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

My response 7 minutes later:

 

“No worries.  Sorry to hear about the accident.  Hope he’s not too banged up.

Nick”

 

And Mark’s response 2 days later on 02/28/2017:

 

“Thanks Nick Your order will be sent very soon.  Thanks so much for understanding!!

 

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

Stuff happens. At this point, 9 weeks since placing my order and 4-4.5 weeks overdue, I’m getting a little antsy but I still have plenty of patience. When I start losing my patience is 10 days later, on 03/10/2017, when I have received no email, ship notification, or package from Luke’s Ultralite. So I send Mark another email:

 

“Mark,

Wondering where this order is.  We are now at 10+ weeks on an order that was quoted at 4.5-5 weeks.  I understand that stuff happens and I’m not in a terrible big hurry but I was told this was going to ship 4 weeks ago and then again 2 weeks ago.  Haven’t seen it yet.

At this point I am starting to have some reservations.

Please let me know the status of this order as soon as possible.

Thanks,
Nick”

 

Mark’s response 1 day later, on 03/11/2017:

 

“Good Afternoon Nick   We are still behind with sewing.  Would you feel better if we refunded your money and then sent you an invoice when we are ready to mail?  I am sorry for the delays. Just let us know what you would like us to do.  Have a great rest of the weekend!!

 

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

And my irritated response, 2.25 hours later:

“Mark,

Thank you for the offer of a refund but, at the moment, I would rather not have to start over.  I have a feeling that a refund would push me further down the priority list.

What I would like is an honest estimate of shipment for this project.  So far, I have been told that the materials were cut and would be sewn and shipped the week of 02/06/17.  Next I was told that the quilt would be sewn the week of 02/27/17.  Now, we are at 03/11/17 and you’re telling me the quilt still hasn’t been sewn?!

I am not unfamiliar to waiting for custom items to be made.  I understand the process.  I also understand that, in this case, there were some extenuating circumstances, what with the auto accident.

I was quoted a 4.5-5 week lead time.  We are now over 10.5 weeks.  That’s irritating but I can understand why you are behind (though it is starting to seem that the accident is not entirely to blame).

What I cannot understand is the lying about adjusted timeframes.

Please give me an honest estimate for completion and shipment of this order so that I may then make an informed decision about whether I want a refund or not.

Respectfully,
Nicholas —“

 

Mark’s response less than an hour later:

 

“I am sorry you feel I am a liar  I will provide you an update in the morning.  Have a great evening!

 

 

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

And the following morning, 03/12.2017, this message to both me and his brother Luke:

 

“Luke please respond

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

Then, silence. So I send him an email 5 days later, on 03/17/2017. Nothing. So I send another email 4 days later, on 03/21/2017:

 

“Seriously, Mark?  You promised me an update 9 days ago.  Haven’t heard from you.

You guys could have quoted me a 14 week wait in the beginning and I may have been alright with it.  But this constantly making new deadlines and failing to meet them is incredibly unprofessional.

It seems to me that you have a serious issue.  Perhaps Luke is AWOL?

At this point, I need a real update and/or a cancellation and full refund.

I will give you until 5:00 P.M. on 03/22/17 to respond to this email.

I am done waiting on you folks.

With (waning) respect,
Nicholas —“

 

Surprisingly, I received this response a mere 1.25 hours later:

 

“Nick  I am sorry for the lack of response on my part and the delay in getting your product out.  This AM Luke was transported to one of our local hospitals and we are awaiting an update  on his condition.  My wife and I will be heading there shortly.  Please let me know if you want your refund and I will get it to you.  I am sorry for this you have been very patient.  Thank you!!

 

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

My response, 0.5 hours later:

 

“Mark,

I am very sorry to hear about Luke.  I was under the impression that his injuries were much less severe.

I’m sure this has been a trying time for you and dealing with angry customers does not help.  My apologies for adding to your stress.

Please do provide me with a refund.

May I respectfully suggest that you update the the note on your homepage to better reflect the situation?

Gods be with you and your’s,
Nick”

 

The following morning, 03/22/2017:

 

“Luke please reimburse Nick  Thanks      Nick  Luke got out of the hospital today   I know he will get your refund out today or tomorrow.  We value you as a client and are sorry this has occurred.  Have a great afternoon!!!

 

Mark Stegner, Customer Relations at Lukesultralite”

 

That was 7 days ago and I have received no refund. Nor have I received any response to the 4 emails I sent to Mark or the 1 email I sent directly to Luke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nick B]

Reserved for updates…

04/02/17
At 10:06 am I received an email from PayPal informing me that my claim has been closed because the seller has issued a refund.

My PayPal account does indeed show a full refund, so I reckon this matter is closed for me.

[Miner]

Sorry to hear about what’s happened to both sides. I’ve had several trouble free transactions with them.

[Kattt]

That was painful to read. I hope you get your money back and find  what you need somewhere else. I also hope whatever is going on with the vendor gets resolved. It is possible that the health issues have spilled into everything else and keeping things together has become difficult, like a domino effect. Best of luck .

[Matthew / BPL]

I had a great experience with LUL last fall.

I did notice they are not taking any new orders on their site right now. It does sound like something serious happened. That doesn’t excuse poor communication but it does indicate that they are having trouble keeping up.

[lee kingry]

I too have had several good purchases with Luke’s so no excuse for what you been through I did see they have posted a notice that they’re not taking any orders at this time with a date given for renewed service which is actually passed I’ve never had the impression it was a one-man show but that may be the situation  communication even in Desperate Times can relieve the stress and keep past customers and new customers happy I can at least speak to the quality of a couple of custom pieces that was excellent and was delivered under the time quoted so hopefully things will get back to normal

[Nick B]

Everything I’ve read about LUL sounds exactly like what you folks are saying. That’s why this caught me off guard. I was planning on ordering some more items from them, too, but figured I’d wait and see how the quilt turned out. Glad i did.

[Nick B]

By the way, I did give them a 24ish hour warning that I would be filing a claim with PayPal and making the matter public via an internet forum. No response.

Clearly, something major is going on.

As I stated before, the waiting isn’t the issue. It’s the lying that really bothers me. They could have told me that there was some catastrophe and my order would take another 2 months. I very likely would have been alright with that.

But to give my timeframes they know aren’t going to be met, and then let them come and go without so much as a peep. That’s just total disrespect.

[Robert Alexander]

Something is up and we probably won’t know what’s going on for some time longer. I had some very extended wait times coupled with poor communication with a cottage manufacturer once and resorted to PMing a well known/respected member in the region to investigate. Said member wasn’t aware of anything but kindly replied. I didn’t press the issue with him and crosssed my fingers for the best. I deferred posting here and everything worked out in the end but at one point I was close to $1000 in and was very worried about the solvency of the business.

 

 

 

 

 

[Todd Stough]

Filling a claim with paypal is fine.

I think some of you are over reacting a bit.  You’re choosing to go with a one man show, clearly his brother helps with emails and orders but it’s likely that Luke does everything else.  He’s been in a bad car accident, he’s been taken to the hospital weeks later.  Clearly he’s in bad shape.  While I’m sure he values customers and his business it’s entirely possible that staying alive is the only thing on his mind.

Pestering his brother for an answer he can’t give you doesn’t help anything. The fact is if something happens to Luke, then the business goes away.

[Robert Alexander]

If the owner is in bad health then why post that due to “high sales volume” orders have been capped until March 25th? I wouldn’t expect a full disclosure but the reports aren’t exactly aligned.

For the record I hope all will be well as I’d eventually like to get some Argon wind pants to pair with my jacket.

[Marc Dalessio]

If the owner is in bad health then why post that due to “high sales volume” orders have been capped until March 25th?

My understanding (from reading random anonymous people on the interwebs) is that the high number of requests was already affecting their ability to take orders, and then there was an accident on top of it. I remember they were having issues with demand earlier in the year.

Luke has made me some great gear. I hope the guy is ok.

[Nick B]

While I’m sure he values customers and his business it’s entirely possible that staying alive is the only thing on his mind.

Pestering his brother for an answer he can’t give you doesn’t help anything.

That is indeed a possibility. However, I have been told multiple times now that all is well and my order will ship shortly. No follow through. Then I have been promised a refund. Again no follow through.

I fail to see how it is pestering when I check the status of my order weeks after I was supposed to have received it. I’m not sending random inquiries. But when a deadline has past with plenty of extra time to allow for shipping delays, it is only prudent of me to inquire.

[Greg K]

Sadly, I believe that your experience reflects what is considered to be prudent  business etiquette in the US these days.  That is, you tell the customer whatever you need to tell them in order to not lose his/her business.  Full disclosure is not the norm.

Not all businesses act this way certainly.  And I would guess that small businesses, especially one person businesses, are better regarding telling the truth than are larger, corporate businesses.

In my opinion Mark was behaving in the way he’s seen businesses in the US behave.  Luke may have done things differently, I don’t know.  Or maybe Mark is getting his instructions about what to tell people from Luke, and they’re both just following standard business procedure.

In any case, withholding the truth from customers is wrong in my opinion, even if it’s a commonplace behavior among businesses today.  Sadly, we live in a world where truth is hard to find.

[Window walker]

While I’m sure he values customers and his business it’s entirely possible that staying alive is the only thing on his mind.

Pestering his brother for an answer he can’t give you doesn’t help anything.

+1

Over reacting? I think so. Lack of communication on LUL part? Absolutely.  But, his history of customer service is unmatched.  The quality of the gear is unmatched.  If he was in a serious car accident and LUL is a one man show, I agree with the person above that says STAYING ALIVE is his first priority.  And it seems he recruited his brother to take care of emails.  I too am waiting on a jacket from him but I am not worried one bit.  Do you guys know what it is like to have 100’s maybe 1000’s of emails to go through?  Come on, give the guy a break. Get your money refunded and move on.  I for one am waiting patiently and confident that my jacket will be amazing.  If I do get ripped off (highly unlikely) oh well. Money is money, who cares. And I am a poor MF. Money doesn’t buy you love, and I will always have that. I could be a good bum, and be happy too I bet. =) <3

Ben

[Nick B]

Come on, give the guy a break. Get your money refunded and move on.

I tried that, several times. It didn’t workout. Thus, the whole point of this thread.

[Ryan Smith]

I think you’ve handled it pretty well so far. It’s completely reasonable to follow up as you did and it seems you were respectful in your correspondence. Just because the business is small doesn’t mean they get a pass on customer service.

I will say that although it seems they’ve purposely lied to you a few times, it was probably just their best guess as to when your order would be completed. Which is often the best case scenario when in fact the worse case scenario should be given. It’s human nature and managing expectations (and most people suck at it).  Poor service – yes. Bold face lying – maybe, but hopefully not.

Ryan

 

 

[Jeff Patrick]

-1 to over reacting.

Ultimately you’ll probably get your money back either from Lukes or paypal, but it looks like you did a lot of stuff right. You gave them multiple chances to fix things.

Not only do you not have your quilt, but you’ve had to invest a lot of time and worry in trying to figure out why you don’t have your quilt.

I had a awful experience returning a tent with campsaver a while back. I don’t remember the specific details but I gave them a couple weeks to get things sorted on their side, gave them time to respond, gave them multiple days to process my refund once they finally agreed to, and gave them a warning that I’d be filing a claim with Google trusted stores.

After a few days of no responses about my promised refund, I got a response and a refund within the hour of filing my complaint with google.

Its no fun feeling like you are getting screwed over by a business and the constant uncertainties and delays about your order feels like getting screwed over to me.

[J R]

As I stated before, the waiting isn’t the issue. It’s the lying that really bothers me.

I understand your frustration, but I would encourage you to think differently about their intentions. Perhaps they did “lie”, which would be a specific intent to deceive, or perhaps they just expressed their own best-felt intentions and desires at the time but the seriousness of Luke’s health situation was too big an obstacle to meet those promises. In other words, maybe they expressed “wishful thinking” rather than “lies.”

I don’t know which is the truth, and you don’t either, and importantly it doesn’t change the outcome for you either way, so you might as well give them the benefit of the doubt that they really did intend to get back to you and process your refund but ultimately they just couldn’t.

And also either way it sounds like you’ve been more than patient and have reached the point where you need to move on, so process the refund through PayPal and be done with it. I can’t even say “lesson learned”, you didn’t do anything wrong, but clearly LUL is facing a crisis at the moment and you won’t get any better resolution to the situation with anger or bitterness because it won’t change anything, and you aren’t even sure if it really is warranted or not. So, disappointment? Sure. Anger and bitterness? That won’t help, may be misdirected, and isn’t good for your own health.

[John Vance]

Sorry to read about this for both parties as I have ordered a number of items from Luke with no issues and great customer service as well.

[Window walker]

I tried that, several times. It didn’t workout. Thus, the whole point of this thread.

Understood, but you can still get refunded through paypal. And if LUL is a one man show, and he has serious injury and in the hospital, what is a man to do? His life may be at risk. I think it is unfair to assume he is screwing you over.  He might be in a bed, on medications, waiting for surgery, or recovering from surgery. Who knows? If I was in that situation I don’t think I would be able to answer a million emails. And like JR mentioned, being angry and bitter won’t help Luke get back on his feet, and it is bad for your health as well.  Supporting cottage manufacturers is great, and one should know that delays may or will happen.  Looks like before the accident he was already swamped because more people are finding out that he makes excellent gear.  Growing pains. Then he gets into a car wreck. One cannot expect much of the situation and if it bothers you enough then get refunded through paypal and stop dragging his name through the mud.  He needs more support than ever in this time of crisis for him, not people smearing his name and getting angry.  If I am wrong, well that’s the way it goes. I’ve been waiting since Jan and the couple email exchanges with Luke have been pleasant, reasonable, and timely.  Look elsewhere for ready made goods, and leave the lofty warm and very light high quality cottage gear to the people who are willing to wait.

 

[Nick B]

it was probably just their best guess as to when your order would be completed. Which is often the best case scenario when in fact the worse case scenario should be given.

Agreed. I am often surprised when businesses choose to quote unrealistic timeframes. If you tell me 5 weeks and it takes 16 weeks, I think you’re incompetent. Tell me 18 weeks and it takes 16, I think you’re awesome.

Anger and bitterness? That won’t help, may be misdirected, and isn’t good for your own health.

Absolutely. I am neither. Frustrated, yes. But I will most likely get my refund through PayPal. I’m not even against trying to do business with them in the future, if there are now further incidents reported.

But, since standard business and social practices have failed in this particular case, I feel that the incident needs to be reported. It’s the type of info I look for before deciding to do business with a new company.

[Kattt]

I don’t get why people have a problem with Nick expressing his frustration here. He has every reason to be upset and post this thread. We can still wish Luke the best and hope all works out in the end because life can be hard and we could all use a break sometimes. These two sentiments are not mutually exclusive.

 

That said, I am slightly uneasy with the entire email conversation being posted here.

[Nick B]

Thank you, Kat. I bear no ill will towards Luke.

[Jeff Patrick]

Always write your emails as if they will be seen by people you  might not want seeing them.

 

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