A Warning About Senchi Designs

It sure sounds like Jon had a bad experience with Senchi. It’s too bad because other people seem to have had good experiences with Senchi and their products. I wasn’t thrilled about the fit of the hoody I ordered from Senchi (briefly mentioned in this thread) but I had a smaller family I donated it to so I didn’t try to return it

I am going to let this post stay up for now. Here are our forum guidelines, in case anyone wants to take a look.

@ Jon

I read through the original post. Yes the whole email thread between you and the manufacturer devolved into inappropriateness.

But the basic fact is that you were trying to return a product past the 30 day return period, yes?  So I see no need to warn people about the company.

There are numerous posts on Reddit about how poorly these items fit.  Sizing seems to be not consistent with what most would expect.  Knowing this I recently purchased one through Garage Gear. Everything I read on Reddit was not off base. I’m an XL. The XXL does not fit well.  A bit small.  Lower portion of the hood in front has a weird fit. I’d described it as crudely constructed.

Just my experience.

I bought a Lark secondhand from someone who wasn’t satisfied with how tight the fit was. I am a medium. I got a medium. It’s snug, but not too bad. I’m relatively slim at 5’10” and 150 pounds. Definitely size up if you want a typical midlayer fit. That being said, I have no experience directly with the seller or continuity of sizing between pieces. The quality on my piece seemed fine. YMMV. HTH.

He insulted you personally?  Oh my!

@Bruce. Your reporting of the “basic fact” is incorrect. While I did inquire about the possibility of making a deferred return exchange on a trip to the US in early January, I also mentioned that I would try to sell them here in Europe and that “the main thing” for me was to get pieces that fit right, for which I was willing to pay, all at a time when Senchi has changed its policy and no longer accepts orders from Europe. That change in ordering policy is also why I mentioned health issues among family back in the States so that Ryan could understand why I couldn’t just ask family to help me forward packages. @Dan: Unbelievably, that mention of family health issues in relation to the inability to have packages forwarded was misconstrued, rather deliberately, as a crude ploy to unscrupulously gain sympathy to feed an avaricious gear acquisition syndrome. It’s pertinent in this context to mention that while I did contact Ryan after the 30-day return window, it was preceded by a massive delay on Ryan’s own part in posting the order (as opposed to a delay in the actual shipping by USPS) that was double the lead time announced at the time of placing the order. During that long delay, Ryan made no effort to contact me. I think he might have even been unaware, because he only put the order into the shipping queue after I contacted him to remind him at the beginning of September, two months after the announced lead time (July). I didn’t make an issue out of this at any point in my correspondence with Ryan either before or after receiving the order. The only thing that I expressed about shipping, in fact, was my sympathy with the challenges that Ryan and others have had to face in the face of COVID delays and logistical issues. Not even one iota of pressure or dissatisfaction or even worry or concern about the unannounced extra long delay and subsequent radio silence was raised on my part at any point after placing the order. So from my perspective it looks like Ryan’s insistence on the one hand on a strict 30-day limit for returns while taking the liberty on the other hand of doubling the lead time opens up the question of double standards. Even after Ryan personally insulted me, I told him that all that was needed on his part was to be honest about the sizing issue, the other challenges he has faced, and apologize for that — while explicitly giving him the leeway to refuse, were he to choose to do so, to handle my request any further. Your characterization of “the whole thread devolv[ing] into inappropriateness” suggests a tit-for-tat equivalence. Not true.

Inevitably, these kinds of claims, counter-claims, and interpretations arise when people cannot read and re-read the original email exchange, which is why I invite Ryan to show up here and agree to that. At that point, if the mails were public, there would be no need for further commentary from either Mr Windus or Mr Solomon and everybody could come to their own conclusions.

@S Long. I’m 5’7″ and 152lbs. I have a thick frame/bones and well-developed muscles. The arms, especially the forearms, were wayyy too tight, almost impossible to get on/off without risk of tearing the Alpha. Also, the shoulders were constrictive to the point of preventing movement. The hood gave a nice tight fit at the face opening but the neck was stretched, did not follow the contours of the body, and fit very poorly. For info, in North American sizing, with brands like Patagonia, my size lies between a men’s S and M. A lot of companies basically outsource product development to the consumer these days, which is what Senchi seems to be doing unfortunately. No doubt Senchi will revise their sizing system, but will they revise their attitude?

@baja bob I didn’t read the posts on Reddit before ordering.

@everyone In general, with cottage manufacturers, especially new start-ups, one has to be prepared for a certain amount of risk in ordering. For instance, about ten years ago I ordered a pack from a new cottage maker who won early praise for his designs. A year later when my pack had sustained user-induced damage, there was no way to contact the original maker/seller about repairs because he had completely closed shop and wasn’t answering emails. Never occurred to me at that point to complain in public. If you want an “Iron-clad guarantee” (wink at Patagonia), you need to look elsewhere. I could go on with a long list of happy and unhappy experiences with cottage manufacturers but in each case up until now I’ve never ever even once taken any of the unhappy stuff public. Certainly wouldn’t have done so in this case, either, if the seller could have just been up front in admitting that the sizing information was misleading and that he was making an honest effort to correct that in the future instead of deflecting, denying, and then hurling insulting innuendo at me.

I’m curious concerning the individuals that had fitting issues. Did you all use the sizing diagram and tables at were provided back when you purchased the item and with following that information you received items that did not fit to your body sizing?

AND did you see sizing concerning Baselayer fit below?

“Baselayer fit – XS roughly equates to a women’s small, M fits like a men’s medium. Size up for use as a midlayer.   Size Chart published statement below:

“Currently the image and sizing chart cannot be displayed because it contains errors.” (28No2021) Have no knowledge when this was place on the web site.

The reason for my posting is I was thinking of purchasing Waxwing Hoodie (Red/Aqua) and this topic has me thinking!!

Hi Ken, I’m sorry to report that in my case the information provided was misleading and did not help me get a garment that fit right either as a midlayer or a baselayer. According to either of those charts that you’ve included above, a size M would be appropriate for me, with room to spare. The garment that I received wasn’t even close, It was more like an S, or even smaller. Heck, for all I know it was an S, sent to me in confusion and haste.

Of course, living in Europe and ordering from Europe (or living in Asia and ordering from Asia as I used to be) is a whole different situation. The cost of postage usually just means that returns are out of the question to begin with. I have gotten my share of items with issues that were too costly to return. When I was living in Taiwan, I ordered a BD Lighthouse tent (first generation) from an online US seller that came with a hole in the floor. I just patched it up and moved on. I’ve always tried to favor local European cottage makers whenever possible, even at greater cost. There just aren’t that many cottage gear makers in Europe to begin with.

Obviously, the owner of Senchi Bad Designs is now aware of sizing issues. Sadly, instead of just being open and honest about that, he chose instead to adopt a defensive attitude that crystallized into some pretty lamentable aggression.

In the absence of any real guarantee, the decision to buy from a cottage gear manufacturer depends almost entirely on the level of trust, usually understood to be backed by the community.
Senchi Designs evidently doesn’t value that trust even while using the community to do what is essentially user-paid product development testing. Perhaps because we’re all jonesin’ for Alpha Direct, we won’t care about that, but it certainly raises food for thought.

In the past, I, too, had problems with orders placed with cottage gear makers who were the subject of very long threads here and elsewhere detailing their problems but I never once added my voice to those threads. Those cottage makers never said or did anything to insult me personally and when confronted with mistakes readily admitted them (at least to me) and were just basically honest (again, at least to me), if somewhat incompetent, overwhelmed by circumstances, and unable to provide refunds.

Good luck with your decision. Thankfully, there are other sources for Alpha Direct hoodies these days.
Jon

I know on the last round of jackets that the sizing was small for XXL.  I had ordered an XXL from the round before that and the sizing was spot on.  I emailed them the day after I received the jacket and was able to return it without issues.

@ Jon

You say “It’s pertinent in this context to mention that while I did contact Ryan after the 30-day return window.”

But you still wanted him “to make right ” your purchase.  Cottage manufacturers are running a business.  It seems to me you are trying to punish a business for not making right your purchase outside of the return window just because he is a cottage manufacturer.  Yes the email exchange between you and the manufacturer devolved into inappropriate language, but the basic facts remain.  You paid for a product. It arrived. It was not acceptable to you. But you waited beyond the return period to return it.

To order products from a  cottage manufacturer might be a more friendly experience than ordering from a mainstream manufacturer but IMO he or she is not our friend.

Hi Bruce,

I understand that you’d like to interpret this as a story about customer dissatisfaction. But that’s not the story. The product was not manufactured to the specs (i.e., sizing) for which the customer contracted at the time of purchase. Hence, the story is about a seller who sold a product that was not up to spec and that was misleadingly advertised and labeled.

I offered him four ways to ‘make it right.’
1) An exchange.
2) A new order that could be mailed to Europe.
3) An exchange or order that could be mailed to NYC during a time window 6-7 weeks after contact.
4) An honest admission of error with no further action.

He chose to say %$%$#@ it to all of the above.

Of course it was past the return date window, just as it was way past the shipping date promised, but no way is that a justification for insulting the customer.

Cheers,
Jon

bummer. sometimes you gotta just split your losses and move on though

just sell it and use the proceeds to buy the mountain hardwear airmesh hoody instead. it will fit as expected and it’s seems more durable at basically the same weight and warmth. you’d sell that senchi here or reddit ulgeartrade in less than an hour

Thanks, Will. Great suggestion and sound advice.

Speaking of sound advice, I’d like to put in a pitch here for the Guppy Friend. If you choose to use synthetics despite the downsides for the environment (and there are downsides to some natural fiber fabrics like merino, too), I consider the Guppy Friend essential for reducing microplastics released during washing.

They’re known for sometimes being too small, but outside the 30 day return window is tough.

It is an in-demand brand though, so maybe use a reseller like eBay? ..  or a certain UL website’s gear-swap   .. starts with a “B”.  Assuming it’s allowed in the EU and the postage makes sense.

To ensure the buyer knows what they are getting take a number of measurements (like front across each seam, zipper to corresponding seam, back width/length, arm length/width, etc.. and use a tape measure to confirm on pictures.   Find the nearest actual size and then resell as (hopefully) almost new.

Thanks Jon for initiating this thread…caused me to reconsider Senchi.

Reminds me of another company in CO, the demand is high, the products are touted as god like. Find another brand that knows how to treat customers-plenty out there-, sell the item used with accurate measurements-I am sure it will sell fast.

Thanks Jon, I will put Senchi on my do not buy list.

Buying from cottage companies I like to give them some leeway on some things (i.e. time frame, quality of stitching, etc), but it would be nice if they give some of that in return. If the item wasn’t to spec such as measurements I would “hope” they would do the same to the consumer. When they start calling you out in a pissing match that’s it for me to black list them. It never looks good for a business to stoop to that level, even if the customer does or doesn’t go there.

I think this day in age customer service in a lot of industries is out the window. Some will just say Covid as an easy reason why.

Thanks again for posting this.

Did you remove the convo? I only see the web archive link and the screenshot of the sizing

Personally I dont get what all the hype is with Alpha Direct – yes it is soft and its the new hot thing. But it feels fairly useless without some type of wind layer added and the CLO just isnt THAT much better to warrant using it over other types of fleece. In my opinion the two best fleeces are simple classic 100% polyester fleece (since it acts like a psuedo wind layer – sort of how Skurka uses it) and even when fully saturated it can be wrung out and basically be dry (or if frozen simply shaken). Alpha direct doesnt feel great at all when fully saturated and sheds like crazy.

The second type of fleece is the lower void Thermal Pro HiLoft which is really the predecessor to Alpha – Thermal Pro varies a crapload (not really the best marketing) but there are some versions that are basically as fluffy as Alpha but with a tighter base weave. Its still useable on its own without having literal holes you can see through and has a CLO pretty similar to Alpha. Extremely soft. Sheds a lot more than classic fleece but not as much as Alpha and more durable.

Maybe you should measure / photograph the garment you received unstretched and stretched and show us just how much smaller it is ?

Update on mine.  I’ve barely worn it (nothing more active than walking) and noticed the seam under one arm has ripped apart.

Eh they do run small but this is well known and even listed on the site.  FYI they do stretch well and the seams are strong.

They do not charge crazy prices for these, they could easily charge double with the current demand. This allows me to give them a bit of a break.

Like others said above, just sell it online, will easily get your money back.

Also Senchi is currently adjusting their sizing for the next batch.  This is probably to address these issues but could lead to further frustration as the community seems to have learned how their sizing worked 😂.

K2

I don’t know.  I have all 3 weights of alpha. It doesn’t really stretch.  And if the seams were sewn well it wouldn’t have ripped apart wearing it around the house a few times.  Seams look they were sewn in home ec class at school.  YMMV.