A few questions about winter tents

Tent isn’t going to make too much of a difference. You’d be a lot better off changing your pad and/ or bag. What type of pad and what degree bag were you using?

+1 to what Brian said. Unless there is enough snow to build some sort of snow shelter (trench, cave), changing tents will not help you get much warmer.

Changing to a pyramid tarp like the MLD DuoMid will get you a lighter shelter which will help mitigate the weight penalty of carrying more insulation (heavier bag, heavier pad).

Some folks insert wood burning stoves into their shelters….

“Can anyone recommend a light 2p that sets up without poles?”
Do you mean without tent poles or trekking poles ?

A fully enclosed double wall tent can be a bit warmer than one with a partial mesh inner however by almost eliminating air flow it can also increase the humidity level (from body perspiration and your breath) therefore making your sb a bit damp and making you feel colder.
In my view , it is better to relay on a warmer mat and if needed a warmer sleeping bag.

FABRIC (not mesh) double wall tent adds around 10F+ … but as said there might be somewhat more condensation he buttoned up

also remember that as a woman you sleep roughly 10F+ colder than men … most ratings are men ratings for bags and quilts

for tips and tricks … read this

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/maximising_your_bags_warmth

;)

Enlightened Equipment Hoodlum has made a big difference to my sleeping comfort in terms of warmth. I second the comments about warm pad and bag helping more than a different tent, but the Hoodlum has been the icing on the cake for me.

Thanks for the great information.  I just bought the 20 degree feathered friends bag this past season. The comment that women sleep ten degrees colder is spot on. The bag is great to about 30. I guess I will be getting another bag and mat.  I can’t remember the model name but I have the yellow Neoair that Wired recommends on her blog

Thanks again for the advice.

Michelle

If you have a bag with more down, it will be warmer without adding much weight

Now that you know what a 20 degree bag will do for you, it would be easy to select a bag that was the right amount warmer, like maybe a 0 degree bag.  Maybe that would be good 20 degrees colder, so that would be 10 F for you, although maybe 15 F would be more conservative.

If that is a financial problem, you can put something on top of your bag, although it will tend to compress the down in your bag which will cancel out some of the increased warmth.  Or wear more inside the bag, but that will tend to get compressed depending on how much room there is inside your bag

“I had a few nights with-6 wind chill”

I notice you used “wind chill” instead of temperature.  Was it breezy or windy?  If so then the advantage of a solid fabric inner over a mesh inner would be greater than it would be in windless conditions.  As others have mentioned, the solid fabric helps with reducing heat loss caused by air movement.

I’ve made “cozies” for some of my tents..  These crude solid fabric covers go over the mesh portions of some of my tents.   The difference in warmth on cool breezy nights is noticeable.  My sister made a cozy for her 3 person (golite?) Imogene tent to cover the mesh and says it changed from a cold tent to a warm tent.

My 20 degree feathered friends bag gets colder as the night progresses because of down shift.  My movements tend to move the down from the top of the bag to the sides.  The bag is tight on me and I think my movements are like the agitator in a washing machine.  Could that be a factor with you and your bag?  My wife is smaller than me and she does better in the Feathered Friends bag than me.  There is also room in it (for her) to wear extra clothes for warmth.

When setting up, make sure and shake out vigorously to get the down to shift to the middle

For some bags this is worse, like if they have less down

You can feel how much down there is on the baffles directly over you.  If they’re thin, you should have shaken you down better.  It’s possible to do it some when you’re laying in bag.

@Michelle

4-season tents double-walled tents can provide more protection against wind chill because of the full fly coverage and double walls.  But as noted above you can still be very cold because of high humidity inside the tent and, when it is a two person tent, there are radiant heat losses since the floor of the tent is mostly uncovered and cold. Another way to protect against heat loss from moving cold air (convection) would be to sleep in your tent or mid shelter inside a bivy sack with a water resistant cover.

There have been times when sleeping in winter under my tarp that I can feel that I am losing heat not through my bottom pad but from the side of my bag because of cold air movement or radiant heat loss. Sometimes a lightweight fix is to use a short piece 1/8 or 3/16 inch thick closed cell foam like Oware and Zpacks sell and wrap it around my shoulders inside my bag. See http://shop.bivysack.com/Foam-Pads_c3.htm

I have camped in winter with hammock users who sleep perfectly cozy up in the tree taking advantage of the radiant heat emitted by the tree at night as well as the protection against wind chill. Placing your tent right up next to the leeward side of a largish tree trunk can also make the difference of 5 degrees on a cold night.

Wind chill is not super relevant when you are in a shelter or wearing wind proof clothing. It would be better to tell us the air temperature and wind speed.

michelle …

the 3 cheapest short term “fixes”

1. get a cheap foam pad and put that over or under the neo air
2. make a synthetic quilt out of climashield apex… this adds 15-20F and also prevents yr down bag from getting condensation or frost which then migrates to the synth … or one can pick up a costco down quilt and use that inside the bag for 20 dollahz, this should add 10F or so
3. build a quick snow wall when u camp, it should come up to the fly of the tent and prevent any drafts from passing under the fly

or one can buy a whole new bag, pad or tent for $$$$ of course … which will of course be somewhat lighter

;)

I don’t do enough winter hiking to justify two sleeping bag purchases in less than a year. I checked out the climashield apex. That looks like the way to go. I can buy a cheap underpad but I will be getting pretty bulky. I hate to ask yet another question but can you recommend a warm and reasonably light pad or air mat?

Thanks!

Michelle

MICHELLE,

I haave a Western Mountaineering Megalite 30 F. bag that permitted some down to be shifted from top to bottom. One night on the PCT near Olancha Peak it went tp 25 F. and I had to wear everything to stay warm. So I sent the bag back to WM to have it overfilled. Now it is warm to an honest 20 F.

1.Ask FF if they will “overfill your bag.

2. wear insulated pants and jacket over your long johns

3. wear a good balaclava that covers your necking part of your face

I am already doing points 2&3 but I never thought to call FF for an overstuff. Like you the bag is a bit tight for me. I bought a women’s bag which is up to 5’9″. I’m 5’10”.

Michelle

if the bag is tight around you, inside, then wearing more stuff inside will be less effective

You could put a quilt over the top.  Try to figure out if it’s compressing your bag though in which case that would be less effective.  Down would weigh less so compress less.  Synthetic would weigh more than down but still probably be effective.

the compression by a light synth quilt is basically a non issue as long as its sized properly

when you place the synth quilt over a down bag ,.. there should be a decent gap … without it its exceptionally tricky to zip up the down bag

make sure any synth quilt you make is fairly wide, it should easily wrap around 3/4 of the bag with a 2″ air gap inside … and long, you should easily be able to pull the quilt over yr head, this adds quite a bit of warmth on cold nights and allows you to do a whole multitude of tasks (getting dressed easily) while under the quilt

also remember to not cut the quilt until you have actually placed it over the bag, not simply cutting it via measurements … it needs to be longer than measurements due to the length lost because of the 3D aspect vs flat measurements

using APEX 3.6 will give a ~40F male rating (50F female) for the quilt itself for warm summer use

an oversized quilt will weight around 600-800g depending on the fabric, straps, etc …

as a bonus it can easily be used in camp or on longer stops and it dries super quick with even a smidgen of sun

as to the pad … i would just get a cheap light foam pad … GG and MEC make thing light ones that you can cut to the length … BPL did tests years ago which showed even a thinfoam pad had a good increase in R value to the overall system

if you do want to buy a “winter” air pad … the neo air xtherm is the same as yr neo air xlite but warmer

but if yr neoair xlite is the womens 3.9R value one … just get a thin foam 1/8″ or so pad and strap that to the outside of the pack

to be quite blunt … you dont even know if the pad is the issue … a cheap 10 dollah walmart foam pad will tell you that very quickly … and in winter you can use that foam pad to sit on

;)

Michelle,
you have the XLite mat,(R3.9) that is a 3 season mat.
At 20f I would be cold on top of that with your sb and clothing.
Take a look at the Xtherm, R 5.7. (about 50% more insulation)
That will do the job probably not changing the rest of your gear.
(sorry, i just read Eric’s comments).

Ok, I have a plan. I will buy the Xtherm. My husband just informed me that he recently bought a Kifaru Woobie and an Arctic Woobie.  I believe that their fill is similar to the Climashield.  They are quite a bit heavier because of the cover material but it will be fine for a test run. We are expecting temperatures in the single digits soon so I will do a backyard test.

Thanks,

Michelle

“We are expecting temperatures in the single digits soon so I will do a backyard test.”

They keep predicting sub 20 F weather here in Portland, but when the day comes, it’s only 28 F or so

Now they’re saying Thursday night is going to be sub 20 F but I’m skeptical

I have some testing I want to do