A built-in VB in a cold-weather quilt – a good idea or not?

[SIMULACRA]

After routinely not succeeding at eliminating condensation to my sleeping bag, waking up in the AM hours with the down/outer layer damp to soaked. I finally noticed it was only the topside of the bag. Not on the backside I was sleeping on. My body heat was keeping it dry and condensation wasn’t laying on it. Flipped the bag over, woke up later on. The wet side, now on my back, was dry and vise versa. I just kept doing this throughout the night and had a dryer experience overall. Keeping on this more often kept it from building too much moisture. Should note, I have a headless half zip making this more effective. Not a fix, maybe a pinch workaround

[Dave @ Oware]

The whole “sleeping in all your clothes” to make up for too little insulation in a bag as a general routine is a flawed notion.

There is no backup redundancy in the system if you get sick, get your clothes or sleeping gear soaked, or have an extreme unexpected weather change.

Probably aren’t going to save weight as adding 8 ounces of down to your quilt/bag is going to do way more than any 8 oz piece of clothing you could bring.

If find wearing too many clothes to bed makes sleeping less comfortable and sometimes   leaves my clothes full of sweat.

Thin long johns, hat, and a VBL sack or half sack with adequate insulation in bag and pad is much more satisfactory for me on any longer cold weather trip. Everything stays drier and the long Johns dry very quickly when you first get up. If a cold snap happens and  I do add extra clothes to the system it is usually a jacket over the vbl foot section and pull down the upper part of the VLB to add upper layers.

[Nick Gatel]

The whole “sleeping in all your clothes” to make up for too little insulation in a bag as a general routine is a flawed notion.

Agree. I plan on not needing extra clothing to stay warm in my bag. But sometimes mother  nature surprises us.

[Jerry Adams]

I wear base layer if warm.  Add synthetic vest of cool.  Add down vest if cold.  Use a warmer down vest if very cold.

I don’t sweat if I don’t wear too much insulation.  Different techniques for different people.

I agree adding more down doesn’t add much weight for a lot more warmth.

I plan for a colder temperature than expected – take the warmer vest even though it won’t probably be needed.  I never wear my rain jacket when sleeping so that’s a possibility in a survival situation.  Also a space blanket.

If you’re worried about your down getting wet, the only alternative is synthetic, but a synthetic sleeping bag is heavy and bulky.  I can’t think of a time my down has got so wet it became a survival situation.  About one time I used my jacket for extra warmth.  I’ve never had to use the space blanket.

[BlackHatGuy]

“but what is the strategy with a VBL quilt lining if temps go below the rated temp of a quilt/sleeping bag?”

Depends on how much, of course. I generally don’t wear down to sleep in, just over me. I can use a VBL liner with just my ‘sleeping’ clothes and I do not wake up wet. I do stay warm.

If they dropped as precipitously as in your example, well, quilts come with pad attachment straps. I never use them, but do carry them in my ‘ditty’ bag. I can use those straps to put through the sleeves of my down jacket, and then attach to the pad, so it stays centered on my sleeping quilt instead of just falling off.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I wish I had kept that quirky Stephenson catalog. BUT… I still have the first few years of BACKPACKER Magazine. Hey, I wuz married in ’68 to my Filipina co-teacher I met while in the Peace Corps. Was I a “child of the ’60s” or what?!

Still married to that hottie 52 years, 2 daughters and 5 grandkids later.

[Sam Farrington]

Warmlite, the company founded by the late Jack Stephenson, is alive and well, and managed by Jack’s niece in Colorado.  She recently was kind enough to sell me some tent zippers that are #3, but much beefier than the #3’s from Quest, et al, for a weight penalty of only .02 oz per running foot.

Jack was a former aeronautical engineer, with an iconoclastic bent.  There is a discussion of the vapor-barrier concept at;

Go to: https://www.warmlite.com/product/light-blue-sleeping-bag-quick-ship/
Then click on ‘About vapor barrier’

The soft inner layer of the vapor barrier, as discussed in previous posts, appears to be the key to the concept. Debate raged (without the benefit of the internet), partly because some dummies like me thought that the inners were just silnylon, like the fabric used on the tents. (The tents had both inner and outer walls, BOTH made with silnylon, which created a whole ‘nother controversy).

Having gone to using layering of the same apparel for sleeping, camping and hiking in order to save weight; I don’t think the vapor barrier concept would work for me, and probably not for most on BPL who are oriented toward minimizing weight, not to mention volume. Although sometimes the dual or triple use approach can become a bit strained. My favorite prejudice is against trekking pole supported tents.

Maybe this thread can resolve the controversy that raged years back; you know, just like the BPL forums resolve most other controversies.

[Roger Caffin]

The soft inner layer of the vapor barrier, as discussed in previous posts, appears to be the key to the concept.
I did actually have a Warmlite tent in my hands for a while during our review of tunnel ttents, but the tent I had seemed to use ordinary nylon fabric coated on both sides. I fail to understand how one could have ‘silnylon’ which is soft or fluffy on one side.

Maybe this thread can resolve the controversy that raged years back; you know, just like the BPL forums resolve most other controversies.
ROTFLMAO!

Cheers

[Jerry Adams]

Vbl is used in sleeping bags, not tents

They use(d) something they called fuzzy stuff.  Its intended application is bedding for hospitals or wherever the people can have accidents.

I got some and made shirt/pants.  There’s a waterproof layer, then a fuzzy layer to go against skin, feels better than clammy plastic

[Matt Dirksen]

“The soft inner layer of the vapor barrier, as discussed in previous posts, appears to be the key to the concept”

This sounds very familiar to the “fuzzy stuff” found on the inside face of Bibler’s ToddTex (or Integral Design’s “TegralTex”).

Having years of first-hand experience with an ID Salathe bivy (+ a couple Bibler tents), I can attest to the moisture wicking ability of these fabrics. But contrary to the Stephenson’s VBL, Todd/TegralTex attempts to distribute the moisture enough so it might be able to pass through the fabric.

Not sure if it actually “works as advertised” but it definitely helps with comfort, simply by mopping up moisture on the inside surface.

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