R2R mid-June South to North

(1) Don't go in summer
(2) See (1)
(3) See (2)

Well, ok, I guess June is a little better than July or August.

But in those 8 paragraphs, you still didn't manage to explain what you are doing.
R2R can mean a lot of things. I take it you are not running!
Is this a 2-day backpack, with one overnight stop at Cottonwood?

Yeah, I'm fuzzy on where you camp in each scenario – Phantom Ranch? Cottonwood? Inquiring minds want to know.

June is marginally less stupid than July or August (I've done them all).

But an 11:30 am start is just too grueling and potentially dangerous to consider. You'll rightfully get yelled at by any Ranger who sees you starting out so late in the day. Yeah, it's downhill. It's still hot by then, possibly brutally hot, and the sun is at its most intense. Downhill doesn't mean no work. You're still walking. You're still carrying a load. And you use muscles to slow your descent.

Just. Don't. Leave. So. Late.

I think there are only three times to leave either Rim in Summer:

1) 6 am.
2) but 5 am is better.
3) and 4 am is better still.

Every mile, every switchback and every step will be cooler than if you had left later. You'll see the sunrise from the rim or from within the Canyon. There'll be few other people on the trail at that hour and they will be all smart people. No idiots on the trail at 5 am – they come out after 10 am, wearing white shoes and plaid pants.

Bring a book. And a way to set up some good shadow. Read the book in the mid-day once you're in camp, as you keep the bandana around your neck moistened with cool creek water. Then watch the poor slobs who hiked through the mid day stagger into camp. You can write us a postcard from Phantom Ranch thanking us for insisting you get an early start.

Really, take another day off work and buy a hotel night on the South Rim or in Tusayan (Red Feather Lodge has good rates). If you start hiking at 11:30 am, you'll spend hours wishing you could somehow burn that saved $150 to wind the clock back 6 hours.

…just to reinforce what Dave said:

I don't know why June is brighter pink, but it's barely any less outrageous than July & August.

Anyway, these corridor trails are all extremely well made and maintained.
They can be safely hiked at night, and on a clear moonlit night the views and ambience can be awesome.
Hiking them at noon in summer is a slow march toward death.

From the South Rim, do not take the South Kaibab – it's slightly shorter, but it's completely exposed, no shade anywhere, and there's no water. It also has many big steps that are hard on the knees, and it's more poop-encrusted and eroded by the mules. And you can't park anywhere near the South Kaibab trailhead – there's no way to get there until the first shuttles run. Take the Bright Angel trail. It has shade and water, and the hiking is smoother. Also, crucially, the Bright Angel trailhead is right near the hotels and car parks, so you can leave really early.

You can figure out the logistics of the shuttle and hotels youself, but assuing you're camping at Cottonwood, the only sensible and enjoyable way to do this hike in June is something like this:

Step 1: put your tent and your sleeping bag back in the car.

Leave the Bright Angel trailhead at 4am.
At 1.5mph, with a few stops, you should reach Phantom Ranch no later than 11am.
Unless you are a mad dog or an Englishman, this is SIESTA TIME.
Sit in the shade by the store, drinking ice cold lemonade.
Dunk your head in the creek.
Take a 3-4 hour nap.
Leave no earlier than 4pm.
Cottonwood is 7 miles away, via gentle well made trail.
Hiking the last mile or two in darkness, you should arrive no later than 9pm.
The least of your concerns is getting a prime camping spot. They are all totally fine.
Don't even think about pitching a tent.
Have dinner, take a 3-4 hour nap.
If it starts raining, that's great – just get up and leave, the rain will keep you cool.
In any case, leave Cottonwood at 2am, aiming to be at the rim no later than 9am.

all the best
Ralph

don't go by that temperature chart Ralph provided, it only shows average temps.
when in my 20's I foolishly did a July overnight from North Rim to the river and back.
on the hike out it was 117* . I was a strong marathon runner at the time and that hike was the most brutal thing I ever did at that time. happy to have survived.

if the moon is bright a night crossing would be fun and more unique.
start around 10 pm

Little more clarification. Departing South rim, 1st night at Bright Angel CG, 2nd night at Cottonwood, 3rd day is hike out either to vehicle, or to North rim campground.

So the option is to drive the car to the South rim and stay in a hotel and depart early am, thus hiking to the North rim and returning by shuttle to the South the following day. Or park at the North rim taking the shuttle to the South rim and hoteling that day, or departing that day for the North and hiking to the vehicle.

I am definitely more apprehensive about departing mid day. But I figured we have zero schedule, so if we start to feel drained/overheated, we take a break.

We will definitely not be doing South Kaibab.

Not leaving in June is not an option. I've been trying for these permits for about 2 years and finally got something. If that means I have to work around certain hiking hours, I am totally ok with that. Meaning if it is over 100 degrees during the day, then we wait until it is cooler to move. :) Even if that means early morning/later evening.

Sounds like the 11:20am departure is just silly even with an unlimited time frame. So we'll try to figure on leaving in the early AM all 3 days.

"Not leaving in June is not an option. I've been trying for these permits for about 2 years and finally got something."

I was just in the Canyon in December, and all of the popular corridor campsites were freely available, walkup. It was chilly with a little bit of snow on the S Rim, but balmy and sunny in the Inner Canyon, highs around 60. I walked through Indian Garden and it was a ghost town. I really don't understand why these places are full in summer and empty in winter. Ok, you can't get to the North Rim in winter, but what's the attraction of humping the shitty (literally) corridor trails anyway? And I'm all for the challenge of pushing your physical limits by doing a challenging hike, but not in temperatures that can kill you.

Michael Popov, RIP
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/running/trail-running/Michael-Popovs-Last-Run.html

Seriously, you're going to come away thinking the GC is a hellhole and never go back.

Cancel your trip.

Come back in December. You can't do R2R then, but what's got you hooked on that anyway? It's not a great hike, and the logisitcs are a pain in the neck. Do something like the classic Bright Angel – Tonto – Hermit loop. You'll have plenty of water, beautiful weather and empty campsites. You'll fall in love with the place.

ETA: and hotels are half the price

>"Come back in December. You can't do R2R then"

But you can do most of a R2R2R going as far north as snow on the trail allows. Makes a nice 2-night UL trip or a pretty killer one-day death march.

Edited to add: If the OP is willing to start early, I retract most of my cautions. In 3 days (even two), R2R can reasonably be done in June. You've just got to start early every day.

True enough. In fact, in early December, more often than not you can tag the North Rim on a R2R2R with nothing more than nanospikes. And with slightly heavier crampons, you could tag it anytime. I'd much rather do a R2R2R in 3 days in December than a one-way R2R in 3 days in June. The BA campsite is at the absolute bottom of the Canyon – if you set off at 4am, you can reach it before the hottest part of the day and stop moving, but now your just sitting there all afternoon and all night in choking heat. And Cottonwood is not much higher elevation, 4000' or so, maybe 10 degrees cooler but still awful.

Go Now!

On January 30 and 31 (less than two weeks ago), I hiked to/from Bright Angel Campground (Phantom Ranch). Bright Angel campground was maybe one third full; same for Indian Gardens Campground. A friend, who does not backpack, wanted to hike to the river and stay at Phantom Ranch; we picked up a Phantom Ranch cancellation and drove from Southern California. Although I have not spent much time hiking at the Grand Canyon, I would not hesitate to hike R2R in the winter. No interest in hiking R2R in June or any other time in the summer. I will return to the Grand Canyon, but will avoid Corridor Trails.

Weather was good for backpacking. There was a small amount of snow at the South Kaibab trailhead and intermittent rain/muddy trail on the descent. Next day was clear and cool (base layer plus Houdini at stops.) On the shuttle bus to South Kaibab, there were three backpackers hiking to the North Rim and back.

We returned on the Bright Angel Trail, which was empty until Indian Gardens, where we encountered day hikers, but at least they hiked five miles down and five miles back. The higher we hiked on Bright Angel Trail, the more day hikers we encountered. In hindsight, to avoid day hikers, we should have descended the Bright Angel Trail, leaving before day hikers, and ascended South Kaibab, which has fewer day hikers.

>"Go Now! On January 30 and 31, . . . I hiked to Phantom Ranch. "

+1

The first bit off the Rim can be a bit icy (but sometimes not), but it is often just the first few hundreds yards. Any sort of micro-spikes or four-points or just 4 screws into the bottom of each shoe is plenty. Or just go slowly for the first few minutes.

There are shorter days in Winter, but unless you're doing 30+ miles, what do you need 16 hours of light for? Besides – LED HEADLAMPS!! – they're a thing now.

Of course you bring a warmer bag/quilt. And those water faucets at Mile-and-a-half- and Three-mile hut on the Bright Angel trail are turned off. But you need so little water compared to summer.

One thing that flips around for me – in summer, I'm trying to keep my clothing moist to wet with sweat or, better yet, creek and water-bottle water. In winter, anywhere, I go with the Inuit approach of "never let yourself sweat". I try hard to shed clothing BEFORE I sweat so as not to wet-out my clothing (especially my down puffy). I aim to hike a little on the cool side, and have a puffy at the ready to slip on during a break or if the wind comes up. But mostly, I aim to set a steady pace so I don't have to keep shedding / re-donning my clothing.

In 3 weeks I'll go the River and back with my 10-year-old daughter. Just as a day hike, no camping permit needed, but it's such a nice time to be there compared to Summer with its hot temps and tourists.

>"to avoid day hikers, we should have descended the Bright Angel Trail, leaving before day hikers, and ascended South Kaibab"

+1

I think everyone mis-times things a little bit their first few trips. Which is fine. Eventually, you get it dialed in and dodge most of the hot weather, day hikers, and burros. It can be kind of fun, after a moonlight hike, coming up the Bright Angel at 7 am with a day pack on. The backpackers and other competent people heading out then are a bit confused, "You coming back from Indian Gardens?" "No, the River." "You camped?!? (eying my tiny pack)" "No camping, just a day hike." "When did you start?!?" "Midnight."

GCNP is a huge, spectacular, wonderful place. And with good timing you can seemingly have it all yourself, even in summer.

I'm off there next week, Dave – I might run into you on the way back out!

Spur of the moment thing, I was feeling stir crazy and just booked the permit a couple of days ago. Boucher, all the way west along the Tonto to Elves Chasm, then back the same way, exploring the side canyons. I did a similar trip last April, but this time I'm going to try and get around the full Royal Arch route (backwards, if there's a rope at the rappel to climb up) before heading back east. If the weather's good, I'll probably do a long day & some moonlight hiking along the Tonto all the way to Indian Garden to exit via BA on the morning of March 3rd (just past full moon).

A long trip like that would be a non-starter even by May, let alone full summer.
Yet this time of year… it took me 2 hours to get the permit – phoned to check all my dates were available (response was – yes, DUH) sent a fax, got an email straight back.

Ralph

I'm a Tripadvisor DE for GCNP and I think I'm the picture of realistic!

I would drive to the NR, park my car and take the Trans-Canyon shuttle to the SR and spend the night. Plan on a pre-dawn start the next morning.

Both the NR and SR campgrounds have backpacker sites. It's a shared site, something like $5pp.

June? Hike at night, you will likely see 110F temps at the river and along the "flats" of Bright Angel Creek at midday. Whatever you do plan the hike such that you are done by 10am each day.

Steve

So we have knocked the trip to a 2 day, and actually switched direction. So we will now depart stupid early N rim, hit Phantom, dinner, depart stupid early from Bright Angel, and head up S rim. I really wanted to go S to N for psychological reasons, but it just makes more sense to do N to S. And we are talking departing at 1am-ish so we should miss most the heat in the physical times.

I still have the permits in order of a 3 day S to N, but I think we can do a 2 day reverse with the same permits, just skipping CWCG on the second day.

Sounds like a much better plan. It'll still be PD hot, but you'll live to complain about it! ;^)

I've done two June backpacking trips off the North Rim, including one during a "heat wave", with temperatures of 119F at the river. It was — literally — like hiking in a pre-heated oven.

And I live in Southern Arizona, so I know: when they say, "but it's a dry heat", it's only valid up to 99F. Once you get over 100F, it's just too hot. Period.

One final tip: make sure you bring a few packages of rehydration salts. Hopefully you won't need them, but if you do, you'll have them. You'll probably crave salty foods, too (which is normal).

Just got back this morning from our hike. We locked in and did North Rim to Bright Angel Campground the first day, then BACG up and out yesterday. Temps were great hitting only about 99 in The Box. 97 as a high in Phantom Ranch. It was an awesome trip. Thanks to everyone that provided insightful input.