elephant foot bag in lieu of survival bivy, blankets, etc

Mike,

One of the coldest nights I've spent was in a shelter at 32 degrees F with an Eddie Bauer elephant foot bag weighing several pounds and advertised to be good to 20 below. I had a sewn through Eddie Bauer down parka on that weighed a couple of pounds.

I concluded that the elephant foot bag would only have worked if the parka was some type of Mt Everest model like they show in the old Jim Whittaker photos.

I can't prove it but for my use I'm thinking that any full size bag, pound for pound, will be much warmer than the combo of elephant foot bag plus parka.

Can't comment on the bivy portion of the topic. Not much experience there.

^ well that doesn't sound too pleasant :)

I know that some folks (mainly climbers) use this type of system w/ at least some success; I don't envision purposely setting out for a couple of days w/ such a setup. It just seems for oz for oz, it might be viable option for an unexpected bivouac.

I've spent a couple of unexpected nights out (most were elk hunting), none were pleasant; I don't expect the next one (knock on wood there isn't a next one!) to be pleasant either, but maybe w/ such a setup- a little less unpleasant????

I got thinking that a bag that was 4'-ish long, might also do double duty for my grandson for summer trips????

I have used one successfully along with warm upper clothing – well worth carrying, but a mammoth bag is even better, especially a woolly mammoth bag.

I've thought about this as well.
Not for planned nights out but as emergency when it would be pretty bad to be out.
I looked at the Sea to Summit Sparks Series SP1 bag at the time.

http://www.seatosummit.com.au/sleepingbags/series/?series=spark

348gr. Very small in the pack, and though not a winter bag at all, I thought that in those cases it would be better than nothing, and perhaps the difference between being in a bad shape, and in a bad shape royal. I was going to combine mine with a bothy or with a bivvy. In the end it became summer and didn't need it as hard at the time.

It's an interesting idea you have. Not sure if a mummy or a quilt, or a full but thinner bag would be smarter.

The Nunatak Akula half bag is rated to 20 degrees (used with their Torre parka), in medium – 46" long, 8 oz of down and weighs 12 oz with a Quantum .8 shell.

Maybe check out the Blizzard Bag. $30ish on Amazon and it is advertised to perform similar to a summer weight bag.

"I got thinking that a bag that was 4'-ish long, might also do double duty for my grandson for summer trips????"

The double duty isn't a fantasy! My 9 yr old daughter has used a Wild Things elephant foot as her bag for three years and loves it! She's just about outgrown it, though.

Mike, you are on the right track if you would appreciate the double duty. It will work for him (if it fits) and it will achieve your goal of being "less unpleasant". And if done right, will be small and light.

Please go for it and show us your results.

"Maybe check out the Blizzard Bag. $30ish on Amazon and it is advertised to perform similar to a summer weight bag."

Forgot about that. That's what I did at the time. Certainly an interesting and cheap option to try out.

Thanks all :) I looked at the Akula- very nice, a little (lot?) pricey though. I'll give some of the custom quilt makers around and see what they'd charge and roughly how it would spec out.

From what I've read, I think the Blizzard Bag would be a step up from the Thermalite Bivy for warmth (it's roughly double the weight), but I don't think it would be as warm as a half bag, nor as dry. I've slept (well kind of slept) in a couple of different foil bivies and you definitely get moist-not critical when you're in the bivy, but not ideal when you get out.

We'll see what comes of my phone conversations.

What about the Brooks Range Elephants foot? On Campsaver.com at the sale price of $150. 8oz of down and total weight of 16 oz and would make a sweet kids bag to boot. A bit heavy for what it is but not bad and the price is right.

I don't have any insight to your question other than to offer an fyi that MLD makes an elephant foot bag that might interest you.

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=218

I really like my feathered friends Vireo – the regular version is about a pound. It's 45 on your chest and 25 degrees on your legs with a drawcoard at the neck. With that kind of parka you'll be plenty warm down to freezing and the bivy should extend that a bit.

thanks gents!

agreed the Brooks Range looks like a very viable option and priced right!

I considered synthetic, but at a 30 degree rating (that's roughly what I'm shooting for) it would be a little heavier than what I was hoping for, also would be a little concerned w/ the constant compression of going into my daypack- maybe unfounded???

I really like the Verio and if I was going for a dedicated sleep system, it's the way I'd go.

I visited w/ Adam @ HammockGear yesterday and ran some specs by him, he's going to send me a quote, but thought he could do it pretty reasonably

Looking at ~ 54" long, 48" opening w/ a shockcord drawstring, tapered to 38" at a insulated footbox, 2" baffle (roughly 30 degrees) and 6-7 oz of down- not sure of weight, but a ballpark guess would be 10-12 oz??????

You are likely better off getting something from Adam custom built to your exact specs, but Apex insulation does very well compressed. The main issue I see for your use is the 4oz Apex model of the Mquilt equates to their 38 degree rating I believe. I don't doubt Ron would make you a 6oz Apex model (28 degree) but that will likely bring the total weight from 12oz to 15 oz.

^ thanks- that's very good to know; I've got a few syn jackets and they definitely "suffer" from repeated compressing

Yea Apex is a bit of a game changer in the synthetic market. I think primaloft is marginally warmer but apex lasts much longer and can take a way bigger beating with regard to compression. It is also continuous filament so it doesn't require baffelling. No cold spots and lighter items as a result (doesn't need the stitching).

I'm not a down hater but I live in the northeast where it is always wet and humid so if I can get a synth at the performance I want and not too big of a weight penalty I'm all for it. MLD's apex quilts were able to do that for me. I still use down but I really like having a good synth option in the arsenal. YMMV

Second on the idea of carrying a light full bag. I carry a mylar tarp to make a lightweight version of the Mors Kochanski super shelter, in my elk kit. Sleeping bag, mylar lean-to, good fire, polycro window and your all set. I don't carry this all day, though. Usually, I have a long approach to where I go so I cache this at a sheltered point, usually halfway in. Not useful for point to point or loops.

The most uncomfortable nights I have ever intentionally spent outside were in an elephants foot and down jacket, sleeping on my pack in a bivy sack. By uncomfortable, I mean feeling like I was going to die from hypothermia while waiting for the sun to rise. Not an emergency, and no fire mind you, just trying to go fast and light. Started using my summer bag after the third time. Still had a night or two with a bag that cut way too close. I don't pull those kinds of stunts anymore.

Try before you buy; in the backyard this winter, with your sleeping bag around your waist and tied below your feet, see what a couple of hours feels like.

I've spent some miserable unplanned nights out as well, my hope is to lessen that misery just a little :)

a cache isn't an option for me, my elk hunting moves around quite a good deal, ditto for my snowshoe/ski trips- so light/fast is definitely how I'd like to roll

a summer bag (30 degree) would be roughly double the weight and double the volume as a half bag, it would give the same thermal efficiency on my lower torso (I'm shooting for a 25-30 degree half bag), but obviously more on my upper torso in conjunction w/ my parka which is a good thing.

but seeing the parka is a given, I'd like to make full use of it and it seems a half bag would be a viable option.

other clothing worn or carried in addition to the parka, I carry a heavy wool balaclava (and a wool Buff in my pants pocket), and obviously the hood of the parka for the noggin. I carry heavy wool mitts and goretex overmitts (while generally wearing wool glove liners)- my hands could be stuffed into my parka pockets and under the half bag. my upper base layer is a Ibex Indie, decently warm (guess add it's hood to the head equation as well). I carry and occasionally wear on the move, my mid layer- a 100 wt fleece 1/4 zip (actually the old Cap 4 Expedition). if it's really cold, I'll bring a syn vest as well. a windshirt and if there is any chance of rain, a hardshell. usually a lightweight to midweight merino base bottom w/ medium weight Schoeller guide style pants. tall, heavy weight wool socks w/ a mid gtx boot and 40 Below neoprene overshoes (on or in the pack)

the entire system in an eVENT bivy and hopefully within a snow trench or debris shelter

I've recently started carrying two beeswax UCO candles (w/ some fabbed holders/hangers made from a pie "tin" and small ss wire); I've used little tea size candles in a debris shelter and they helped a little, these should help more

I can't help but think that this setup would ease the misery a little bit :)

For less than 8 oz. you could add a silnylon 'shirt' and pants that you could wear as a VBL under your clothes. This would substantially ease the misery a little bit with the half bag and down jacket and everything else on the list.

Doug- good idea, I've read a lot about VBL's, but never played around w/ them- time to do some re-reading :)

Mike

Doug- good idea, I've read a lot about VBL's, but never played around w/ them- time to do some re-reading :)

For Montana? … absolutely! And if you have that rainshell along you can use it as a VBL under your torso insulation.

my half bag arrived from Hammock Gear, a thing of beauty :) it’s spot on to my specs- 52″ overall length, 48″ opening w/ a drawstring, 38″ footbox, 7 oz of treated 850

tipped the scales at 11 ounces on the nose, loft is roughly 4.5″ which should make it a 25-ish degree bag

the top of the bag comes up to the middle of my chest, so they’ll be ~ 1.5′ of overlap w/ the parka

I’m going to try and give it a test run next weekend

Congrats on getting exactly what you wanted. Looks like a great quilt. I have a HG quilt and could not be happier with it.

forgot to update this thread, spent a cool night out (upper 20’s) in a debris shelter covered w/ snow using my half bag and parka (OR Transcendent), bivy and short pad (in conjunction w/ natural insulation)

slept just fine :) this will definitely be my new “winter” day hike kit