Opinions on the Clelland aquamira mix method?

You'll have to search around a bit to find it but someone here tested premixed chlorine dioxide over a week or so and it was still fine to use at the end of their study. They were using some sort of tester strip. The main thing I took away from it was the importance of keeping it in an opaque bottle.

A lack of symptoms isn't proof that the technique works. It's just as likely in some cases that people weren't exposed to levels of protozoa high enough to make them sick when using this technique.

I also suspect that most people don't wait four hours after treatment.

From what I recall from other forum posts the 4 hours thing is EPA CYA for cold murky water that nobody, not even us lowlanders will really be drinking almost ever. I mean who doesn't prefilter turbid water?

I'm cool on the 20-40 minutes thing for clear water, I was mostly worried about letting the mix sit for 24+ hours. Sounds like I need to go get a couple black 3ml bottles!

I'm sure that's fine. My point was/is that mixing as you go and the suggested waiting period are often times ignored. This is probably fine but it's difficult to say in a field setting whether or not the modified techniques truly work or if the hikers are just getting lucky.

I suspect it's a combination of the two.

“I’m in the mid-atlantic where all water is dirty so I’m a bit wary to try this method, but it’s tempting due to the simplicity.”

Chemicals can treat tiny baddies like viruses and bacteria in 15-20 minutes. But killing the bigger baddies with protective shells like certain protozoa cysts (e.g. giardia, crypto) takes a lot longer time — esp. if the water is cold and chemicals work sluggishly. It’s why chlorine dioxide instructions say “up to 4 hours”. As well, chemical effectiveness can be adversely affected in dirty water.

Perhaps you might be interested in my “combo” method to cut down on long wait time with just a little builk / weight. I view mine as a “do it all” system that is lightweight, compact, and cheap:

– treat viruses, bacteria and protozoa cysts
– clarify water
– improve water taste

I combine chemical treatment with an Aquamira Frontier Pro filter that weighs just 2 ounces. So here’s what I do:

1. scoop water into Platy bottles

2. add 6 drops of household chlorine bleach and wait 20 minutes. I rely on chlorine to treat only viruses and bacteria.

3. drink water via hydration tube — through the inline Aquamira filter — to block out all the bigger and harder to kill stuff like protozoa cysts. This filter will also clarify water and its carbon core will improve its taste. There is no trace of chlorine smell or taste at all.

Finally, although the filter is marketed as a “stand alone” — I don’t trust its large filter pore size. This is why I combine it with household bleach. This combo cuts down on bulk/weight as compared to more intricate filters — and cuts down on wait time as compared to using chemicals alone.

I keep reading about the mixing of liquid Aqua Mira and always wonder why these folks do not use Katadyn Micropur chlorine dioxide tablets.

So what's up with hikers preferring the inconvenience of mixing liquid Aqua Mira?

No kidding. I dropped the liquid years ago and now use the tablets exclusively.

I don't use either form… but the liquid format is cheaper. IMHO, comparing the price differential to our other gear costs (e.g. goose down bag and all and also to our trip costs esp. when flying or driving long distances — that cost differential is trivial. But, each to his or her own, of course.

I notice that REI doesn't even carry Aqua Mira anymore. I have not tried the tablets but I guess I should. I will try Clelland's method and I hope I don't get sick. His premix method saves 7 minutes of wait time, but you still have to wait 15 minutes.

Actually, their website DOES carry the drops!

This was discussed some time ago. According to the COO of Aquamira: “The reason that the instructions call for a reaction wait time of 5 minutes is so that the mixture can be added to the water at the peak of ClO2 production. If a person adds the mixture too early or late, the final concentration of ClO2 in the water can be significantly less than the required 4ppm.”

I drank many liters of water from various (and some clearly bad, i.e. "swamp") sources last year using the pre-mix per Clelland and had no problems.

Anecdotal, for sure, but I'm a fan.

Aquamira requires mixing part A with part B and waiting 5 minutes before adding the mix to untreated water. Then you wait 15 more minutes (30 for very cold or cloudy water) before the water is drinkable. So the wait time from untreated water to drinkable water is 20 minutes to 35 minutes. The chlorine dioxide tablets say to wait 4 hours.

^^^^

“If Aquamira Water Treatment was subjected to the same conditions, it would require a 4 hour wait time to kill Crypto as well.”

Dennis B. Brown
Chief Operating Officer
Aquamira Technologies, Inc.

The link is Here

Be careful when you talk about treatment times. Be specific. Turbidity, Temperatures, and Nasties all enter into the picture and should be referenced.

The 5 minute mix wait with Aqua Mira isn't really a factor. I mix it before going to fill my bottles. Usually only have to wait 1-2 minutes when I get back to my pack. I keep my older mixing caps so I usually have 2 with me instead of just the 1 that comes with a new set of bottles. So I can add it to 2 containers at the same time.

That said, I've been meaning to try out the premix method for awhile since I already have several small dropper bottles I can use for this. I've gotten lazy in recent years about re-bottling my Aqua Mira Drops into a smaller dropper bottle to save a tiny amount of weight for shorter trips. If I'm going to bother with a premix bottle too, then I should get back into the re-bottling habit as well.

Speaking of wait times, I remember reading here prior to my 2009 PCT hike about people using less then the recommended number of drops and waiting longer for it to work. I confess that I'm guilty of doing this when the water looks likely to be good.

"The chlorine dioxide tablets say to wait 4 hours."

As Greg indicates, the wait times for both liquid and tablet are identical.

Its not exact science. You dont know how much treatment is needed. Most of time, you really dont need to treat at all, so there is a wide margin for error.

The benefit of drops is they are cheaper than tabs, and you can add what you want. Unless you drink sewage, you dont need the full dose really.

I seldom use more than half recomended amt.

Premixing works fine. Thats all i do as well. clo2 is escaping from the open mix container, thats why the 5 min is important. If mix up in the small dropper, or put into it at 5 min, it doesnt escape, the concentration stays strong.

If I'm treating my water at all, pre-mixing AM has been my go-to for years. I've never had an issue.
Cheaper than tablets, just as simple when pre-mixed. I use the 30 minute wait time as my standard with a lower dose if its sitting overnight, slightly larger dose if water is really suspect.

Greg's informative link is very useful. Somehow I overlooked this. The fact that there is no difference in wait time between the liquid and the tablets drives home the question Eric asked. Why would anyone use Aqua Mira over tablets?

Based on this new (to me) information, I plan on switching from Aqua Mira to tablets.

To repeat Eric's question, is there any reason at all to use Aqua Mira?

I guess my only reluctance would stem from the fact that the Manufacturer's instructions give significantly different treatment times.

"I guess my only reluctance would stem from the fact that the Manufacturer's instructions give significantly different treatment times."

An example would be ….?

If the conditions are the same, and everyone is aiming at 4 ppm, how can the times be different?

This has been repeated here many times.

Tablets are an EPA certified water purifier. The 4 hrs is to treat cryptosporidium.

AM drops are not an EPA certified water purifier. There is difficulty ensuring the 4ppm due to the mixing and vaporization losses. The label on the drops says only"kills odor causing bacteria" or something similar.

They are the same, but marketed two different ways.

All you need to know, is that giardia is reduced 1000 x in 5 min by 4ppm in 50 f clean water. How nasty of water are you intending to drink? 30 min gives a 4+ log reduction.a safer level for treating sewage . look up epas cl02 treatment times tables and do what makes you comfortable. Or just follow very very conservative directions intended to cover cold cloudy sewage laden water.

Greg, you're right; if Aqua Mira mix yields 4 ppm and the tablets also yield 4 ppm, the wait times (for identical conditions) would logically be identical. I didn't know that until reading this thread, so it's welcome information to me, because I prefer the convenience of the tablets. My past practice has been to treat with AM water I need quickly, but to use tablets for overnight treatment.

But it seems odd that the instructions are different if the active chemical action is identical. My AM directions say "Let stand 15 minutes. If water is very cold, cloudy or tinted let stand 30 minutes." The directions on Potable Aqua Chlorine Dioxide Tablets say "Allow to react for 4 hours, in an opaque container or in the dark, in order to generate a use-solution of 4 ppm chlorine dioxide."

It makes me wonder if the tablets take more time to reach 4 ppm? I don't know, but if the products are identical why are the directions different? That's the only thing that doesn't make sense to me.

"…it seems odd that the instructions are different if the active chemical action is identical."

Warm, clear water has less effect on the active agent.

Cold water slows down the chemical reactions. Murky water (highly organic, containing floaties, etc) affects the pH and requires "soaking time" to seek and destroy.

Cold and murky is the ultimate "challenge test" (formal term, with EPA specifications) and requires a long time to be effective.

The manufacturer/marketing team will use whatever gives it an advantage. (AquaTabs conveniently omits use against crypto.)

But the science is solid, when you consider all the factors.

M B,

Your post appeared while I was composing mine. Thanks. I understand that the tablets are marketed as purifiers, but AM is not. It sure seems like there is no good reason to use AM given that the tablets are just as fast and effective, and easier to use, and lighter than AM.

Peter, the published EPA treatment is by C-t to accomplish the desired reduction.

C-t is concentration x time. Concentration is mg/L = ppm , time is minutes.

So you can half the amount, and wait twice the time. Or 1/3 amt and 3x the time, or just plain add less, a lot less, than the tablet adds.

The chances of getting water as nasty as the tablet treatments are intended for, is slim. Its not going to be a clear running alpine spring that needs that level of treatment. A stagnant pond in cow territory might, or need 2x more.

Using drops allows one to add the amount they want. Thats the benefit. I rarely add more than half the recomended amount. Very small bottles i carry last about 2 weeks, and generate no trash, and i consume less cl02. Drops are also less expensive. Tablets are easy, that is good too. But they get pricey for long trips.

Getting tablets out of foil without crushing can require a knife. Ibe had some micropur that turned to powder in the foil blister too.