Which HMG pack?

The Porter is more water resistant than the Windrider due to its lack of a hydration port.

I like the Porters for their versatility; you can use the daisy chains to attach anything you want. Zimmerbuilt will make you some spectacular accessories to spec if the HMG add-ons don't float your boat.

I just picked up a Porter here on the Gear Swap Forum for winter backpacking. I am pretty impressed with the pack so far. Mine came with the stuff pocket. While it has daisy chains and compression straps, it has a real clean exterior design. As the last post mentioned, Chris at Zimmerbuilt makes great accessories for the Porter. I know there is at least one thread about his water bottle pockets. I plan on ordering a pack lid from Chris for my Porter at some point in the future.

What do you mean by winter trekking? If you want to carry skis or snowshoes, I'd say Porter. It is more versatile and offers more configurations via pocket add-ons (HMG Porter pocket and Zimmerbuilt bottle pockets) and the daisy chains allow you to carry skis vertically or horizontally with Voile straps. In most other regards, I prefer the integrated exterior pockets on the Windrider. You can fit paddle blades in the side or front pockets on the Windrider, but it really limits you options for carrying skis unless you do a little sewing.

My winter trekking means snowshoeing. I have to say, though, it was 60 degrees in Tahoe today. Snowshoeing ops seem few and far between these days. It's not just the shoes but the additional gear I carry for winter camping and climbing.

I was initially drawn to the Porter. But the side pockets of the Windrider look perfect for paddle storage. I have a four-piece Werner Sherpa paddle.

The fact that the Windrider has a hydration valve and water can get in that way does not really concern me. I store gear in the tubes of my Denali Llama. If I did not have that option, I would pick the Porter without second thought.

Does anyone have a picture of paddles secured to the Porter? I used Google image search and could not find such a picture. Paddle transport is a key thing here. I need a better idea of how this would work on the Porter.

I'm kind of curious why all these people are customizing the Porter so much. Why not just get another model? Nothing against customization. Make the pack exactly what you need. But I'm not exactly sure why I would customize a Porter with pouches when that is the Windrider, right?

In any case, I prefer the Porter for a number of reasons. If I can be satisfied that it can carry the paddle well, I will probably buy it.

And now my case for the Southwest (which has stouter external pockets than the Windrider).
I've carried packrafts/paddles on a number of trips in Alaska and the Southwest can easily handle the external lashing, especially with the addition of either type of straps offered by HMG. I love the external pockets because I can stuff lunch food, a jacket, etc, and stuff doesn't get snagged – the pockets are tough and deep and have good elastic at the top.
One can easily put a piece of tape over the hydration port and, if you use CF or silnylon stuff sacks, your gear won't get wet anyway.
I use a ZPacks™ Cuben Fiber Shoulder Pouch on each shoulder strap for camera (mine's waterproof) and GPS – which I keep in a waterproof bag if near or on water.
I have bushwhacked with my Southwest in the backcountry of the Superstition Mountains in AZ as well as up here in Kodiak. I have yet to lose anything out of a pocket or have a pocket damaged by catclaw, cactus, alder, whatever…..
The thing about daisy chains to keep in mind is that if your strap fails…….or comes unhooked……(which has happened to me)

And the winner is – Michael, with his insights on the Southwest. I'm getting it! I'm not sure why I had not looked more closely at it… Perhaps the name… I love the Southwest, but don't envision my pack needs as those who hike there… Or some other foolish notion. Simply put, I want outside pockets and the ones on the Southwest are more stout and that's what I need for this pack.

Thanks everyone. The discussion on here always seems to get me where I need to be.

Brad

The Porter is more waterproof without any hydration port, unlike the Southwest if that is a consideration.

Regardless of which model you end up with, be sure to tinker with the stays. Before I owned a Porter, I was a bit turned off by what I saw on the web and in person on the trail with respect to fit. Mostly what I saw was either too short of a torso or the top of the pack would "fall" away from the curve of the shoulder. I met a couple last summer on a summit who both sported HMGs and both looked like they were carrying ironing boards on their backs.

Don't be afraid to bend the heck out of the stays to get the shape you need – they'll take it. I didn't get mine really dialed until after umpteen walks around the neighborhood and three trips (2, 3 day trips and a 5 day trip). I had to really change the original shape to get the right fit. Now that they're fitted correctly, the pack hugs the curve of my back like no other. Very comfortable.

The hydration port is tightly closed with velcro and allows little if any moisture into the pack. If the pack were to be completely submerged for some length of time, there might be some leakage. If this were truly a concern, a piece of strategically placed CF repair tape on the inside should prevent any leakage. As I said before, using CF or silnylon stuff sacks would prevent any moisture that did get into the pack from getting into your gear.
I love my Southwest(s). I use a 2400 as a day pack here in Kodiak where it rains 77 inches/year + 72 inches of snow/year. Never had anything inside the pack get wet including traveling in open skiffs. I take it with me when I snowbird in AZ and thus far it has been impervious to catclaw and the other assorted spiny, sticky, catchy, tearing vegetation.
I also have a 3400 for short trips and a 4400 for those long backpacking trips, especially in the desert when I need to carry my water.

Hi Michael, I was a tester for HMG and have used all of their packs in extremely wet conditions. The Porter was specifically designed for expedition pack rafting, which is what the OP is using it for. The hydration port on the Windriders will more likely leak in those conditions. Note that the Porter has, or at least had, more significant belt padding and length so would be a better source of load hauling. Not sure if that is the case now.

Dave –
Thanks for your insight based on your experience. I understand the purpose for designing the Porter the way it is. That said, do you have any actual experience of water leaking into the pack via the hydration port?
Thanks.

All the 4400 HMG packs have the same hipbelt and suspension – they should carry the exact same.

The hydration port is a moot point IMO. Tape it up, or ask HMG to build a Southwest without it.

I had a some moisture that I believe came in from the hydration port on a very wet trek on Vancouver Island. I had the Porter dunked once in a stream (long story) and no moisture got in.

I don't think it would be a significant difference, but for Pack Rafting, I wouldn't take any chances – i.e. a roll over. Just my 2c, of course.

John, the other difference with the Porter is that the side compression straps and webbing are much thicker, which may be better to carry external gear. The models that I touched in the past, albeit I know there were running changes, provided a longer, wider belt on the Porter. You are probably right that they share the same belts now (a quick email to Mike would answer the question) but notice that the Porter actually weighs a couple of ounces more than the Windrider despite the omission of a dedicated front pocket.

I believe the Porter has a plastic frame sheet in addition to the back panel foam, etc. I'd opt for that addition in any HMG pack I ordered. It helps keep your stuff from poking you in the back if you pack less than perfectly, and keeps loads from sagging, especially with packraft or winter loads.

The Porter compression straps are thicker (or were, if they changed them) and hold their tension better than the grosgrain- type straps on the newer Windrider/SW packs I have used. I like the thicker straps better. I find the thin straps slippy and a little annoying. The QR buckles on the Porter side compression straps are also handy, though not as important if you are sliding your gear down into pockets. I would love a hybrid of the two packs: Porter daisy chains and side compression straps, SW-style bottle pockets for durability in heavy brush, and the Windrider front mesh pocket for gear drying. That'd be about perfect. :^)

I think the Porter is heavier due to all the webbing on it (thicker webbing + buckles add up quickly). It's also got that interior pocket. Here is info on the 4400 SW straight from HMG's website:

"All new 2014 HMG technologies and improvements are integrated into this model including fully sealed side seams for improved water resistance, a double-reinforced 150d pack bottom, added back panel frame sheet to allow heavier weight carrying capacity, re-designed hip-belt pockets for improved utility, and extended hip-belt length for better wrap around support and improved weight transfer capability from the shoulders to the hips."

+1 Phillip, " would love a hybrid of the two packs: Porter daisy chains and side compression straps, SW-style bottle pockets for durability in heavy brush, and the Windrider front mesh pocket for gear drying. That'd be about perfect. :^)"

Only in X33 fabric :)

"Only in X33 fabric :)"

Get the heavier black cuben. It is absolutely bomber stuff. Not a posted option but HMG will do it.

Dave – sorry to beat this poor dead horse into a bloody mess, but were you using the hydration port on your trek or was it sealed?
Philip makes some good points – everybody does. It seems what is best is for each of us to design our perfect pack and then gird ourselves for when we hear the cost of making the custom pack.
So far, for me, the Southwest has worked well for my needs.

Sorry – yes, I had it closed. I am not a fan of hydration bags.

HMG will do some custom work for a fee so it is always a good idea to inquire directly to see what they can do for that 'perfect' pack.

HMG gave me the choice of port or no port on my Porter. No charge. I had them do a removable belt and it was only a 20 buck charge.
I use the Zimmer custom wb pockets for desert hikes where I go through a lot of water. Otherwise I use shoulder strap wb holders from Zimmer. I also use the HMG stuff bag on occasion. Replace the stuff bag clips with speed clips from Zimmer. Much easier to remove when not wanted. It really makes for a multi use pack.

I had an older model of the 3400 Porter. During the flood in Sept '13 I hiked out in torrential rain with my essentials in the pack and I was disappointed how wet the contents got. I believe they have started applying tape to seal the major seams on the newer models, but they stop short of promising them to be waterproof. Use a pack liner to be safe.

That tape peels off if you get any prolonged moisture inside the pack. HMG did send me tape, but not enough. I just used silicone. For rafting, I would use dry bags.