GR 10 Pyrenees layering and gear suggestions needed for newbie

I've backpacked chunks of the GR10 & HRP in summer over a period of years, pre-UL with tactel or polycotton walking pants , short sleeve baselayer & a reasonably windproof fleece pullover (Mountain Equipment Ultrafleece) & lightweight waterproofs. Most of the time I walked in running shorts & vest (plenty suncream). I used an approx 40F down bag & a 8mm CCF or old thermarest. We had frost some nights higher up but didn't miss any down/synth extra layers although if you feel the cold something light & packable may be of use.

I can't really comment on your gear choices as I'm not familiar with the models quoted.

What stove you taking? I mostly used a gas cartridge stove with an adapter to take the ubiquitous piercable Gaz cartridge. Screw top are more common now.

Thanks so much!!

It sounds like I can get away with fewer warm items, which would be great.

I wanted to bring a JetBoil, but I am not sure if I will find compatible gas…

Three Weeks in the Pyrenees
Haute Route Pyrenees, Atlantic to Mediterranean, Summer 2010
Haute Route Pyrenees, Gear List and Assessment
Lightweight Gear for Long Distance Hiking: Four Months in Europe
Post-Trip Assessment of Lightweight Gear for Long Distance Hiking
Walking Tracks in the Pyrenees: the GR10 and GR11
4,500 km hike across Western Europe
Christine’s(German Tourists) Website

Hi Sonnie

Para 2: pretty much on the mark for GR10, GR11 and HRP.

We walk (Australia, Europe) in a single Taslan/Supplex windshirt layer. We carry a single thermal layer and a synthetic jacket for cold nights. We use ponchos as rain gear. Two sets of underwear, washed frequently, dried on the pack in the sun.

SB/quilt with LINER.

Screw-thread canisters: not found everywhere, but you should be OK with some foresight. Campingaz Qwik-Clik a bit more available. Do NOT trust the piercable canisters: they can leak.

Pack size: keep it SMALL!

Cheers

Excellent list of links by Link!

I walked the HRP a few years back. Conditions will depend on the year. Keep an eye on the weather/snow conditions leading up to your start date. When I was there the Pyrenees had been hit with late snows which lingered into July and August. 2 months gives you plenty of time. You could hop back and forth between France and Spain and try the HRP too. If you follow the HRP, bring a GPS and load the waymarks ahead of time. Look for cabanas too–free mountain huts (very basic).

You will bake and freeze. A sun shirt with collar is a good idea. You can wash and dry it when you break for lunch. Or dry it on your pack while you wear a base layer. If you are a cold sleeper, get the warmer quilt. Alcohol is easy to get for a burner. France: alcool a bruleur. Spain: Alcohol de Quemar. I used alcohol and wood (Bushbuddy).

Cicerone Press in the UK offers good guides for all three routes. If you are on the GR10 you should be able to charge phone in towns.

+1 keep the pack light and small.

Happy trails!

Mike

one item missing: me!
take me with you :-)
seriously, look at the links, like link says: christine is great.
also great on walking solo as a woman, enormously experienced, great gear lists.

good luck

Link: Thanks for the links! I'm re-reading many of them.

Roger: Thanks for confirming that I have a handle on the environments I will be in. I've learned most of it from this forum! I didn't know what Taslan or Supplex is so I looked it up and it sounds similar to Capilene–a wick away polyester fabric. Capilene comes in 4 weights, from silk weight to expedition weight. How thick/warm is the Taslan/Supplex you used? If it was a wind shirt layer, I am guessing it was not very thin. Did you use a heavy thermal or light thermal? I am thinking of a 250 merino wool for night. I am so curious about this one: how did your ponchos work out?? I am a little afraid to completely ditch a heavy waterproof jacket, as I am very afraid of being cold and wet :)

Michael: "You will bake and you will freeze." "Conditions depend on the year." Thank you…okay, maybe this is why I have been so confused! Some bloggers seem to have happily hiked in shorts the whole way, and others have said it was cold, wet and it sounded kind of miserable. I guess I truly will just need to be prepared for anything. I suppose that means I need to gear up at home, take everything (since I leave in April for Europe) and then select the most appropriate pieces right before I hit the trail based on the weather this year…sound reasonable? What is the earliest I could start? I think I will be waiting (impatiently) thru May and June! :) Cicerone book is on the way. Is it current? Am I going to bake more? Or freeze more? Maybe I should consider the Spanish side…don't like to freeze.

Marjolein: You can come!! :)

Thank you all! You are great!

Does anyone know how to deal with lightning storms? That sounds kind of scary… Can I set up a lightning rod or something away from my tent so that gets hit instead of me?

Does anyone know how to find specific temperature and climate data for the GR 10? If I find each city the trail goes through, and look up the weather, I am sure that will not be accurate for my needs, since there is so much variability between, for instance the GR10, 11 and HRP. Not sure where to find specific GR 10 trail temps and info.

Also, I was going to hike in my base layers. But maybe I should consider a long sleeve hiking shirt instead? Advantages? Disadvantages?

Hi Sonnie

Taslan/Supplex: see http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/notes_from_the_field_bushwhacking_shell.html
It's a very tough nylon fabric which lasts for many years in the field. Unfortunately, the windshirt I use does not look 'fashionable', so it is no longer made commercially. We (my wife and I) wear them as a single layer anywhere from 0 C to 40 C. Yes, they are enough to keep us warm enough or shaded enough – while moving. (The 40 C was a bit rough though.)

Thermal base layer: just a shade over 'silk weight'. Close to the old 100-weight fleece, maybe a shade less. pack in plastic bag inside silnylon bag, to keep DRY. Ditto for a single fleece or synthetic (or light down) jacket. Keep DRY.

Poncho: we (my wife and I) are dedicated believers. One reason is that you get frequent showers in the Pyrenees, and stopping to put a jacket on for 15 minutes then stopping to take it off again becomes an incredible hassle. See http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/myog_mntn_poncho.html .
I will add that most Euro walkers wear pinchos in the rain, not jackets, probably for similar reasons. They are readily available.

Wool thermals: great marketing, great fashion wear, pathetic in the field. They take 24 hours to dry and rip so easily. Wear at home.

Sleeping bag liner: this is compulsory anyhow, for sleeping in any Hut or Refuge. They INSIST. If it is really hot, liner plus half a quilt is enough. Thermals would often be too much.

Clothing: someone commented that your list has twice as much clothing as you need. I agree. Some people do parts of the GR10 with just a towel, tootbrush, waterbottle, fluffy and poncho, in a day pack. They buy the day's food each day. Walking there can be very couth!

Shorts vs longs: we ALWAYS hike in longs. Protection from sun (Australia!), wind, and scrub (also Australia). See http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/make_your_own_gear_trousers.html for ours. Reality is that a $5 pair of plain nylon track pants with NO lining would probably do just fine. Not the thick cotton ones though!!!

April: WAY TOO EARLY ! ! ! ! ! There will be snow on the mountains and the Refuges will all be closed – as will many hotels in the villages. Get the Cicerone GR10 Guide book or the FFRP 4-book set (from France, very good, but in French) and check opening times for the walking season.

France vs Spain: the Spanish side (GR11) is hot, dry and rough. The GR10 is couth, comfortable and well-marked.

Lightning: forget it. Really. Small short rain storms – yeah, plenty.

Weather: Most every Refuge and small hotel will have the daily forecast from the Meteo on a notice board.

Cheers
roger@backpackinglight.com

I hate to admit it, but I agree with everything Roger says ;-) except the lightning. See below.

Yes, you will bake (more of this) and freeze, and you will have great fun. The year I was there in July-August was very sunny and hot, but snow lingered up high through the summer. Keep an eye on conditions, which is standard practice, really. Don’t worry, though, you can always drop down and go around if you need to. Do check weather reports at the huts. The camping conditions were ideal when I was there, but there were a few cold nights and a couple of big storms. If you can do it, I think a late June/early July start would be best, though you will see more people in the mountains in August because that’s when Europeans take their vacation, which may be good if you want to meet people.

+1 what Roger says about a shirt. Check out shirts from RailRiders, Ex Officio, etc. You can wear this shirt in town too. I like a loose fitting shirt in hot sunny climates. Don’t forget a good sun hat with a wide brim too. Essential IMO.

+1 get a lighter rain jacket. A poncho is a good recommendation. Check out rain skirts too (Z Packs, ULA, MLD. I would figure out what you need for the conditions (3 season) you will likely encounter. Top: thin, light base layer like Roger suggests, sun shirt, insulation, hard shell. A wind shirt? I love them but usually don’t bring one on an extended trip. 100 weight fleece (eg., something like Cap 4) could be handy too, especially for wet, cold days. Bottom: base layer, pants, rain skirt/poncho. Sleeping socks are worth their weight. Optional: shorts (but you will need extra sunscreen). Socks, hat, gloves/mitts, rain shell for hands, Dirty Girl gaiters. Keep in mind there are shops on the way.

You may not even get very cold conditions, but you must be prepared for them. You’ll stay warm when hiking. If you are cold, get under your quilt in camp. Eat in bed.

Lightning: read up on it. You will more than likely experience some storms. Staying in a hut on these nights may be an option. Don't worry about the lightning. Be informed, and know the basics, though there are many different views on the subject. It's a good habit to check the sky on a regular basis, look for weather patterns (e.g., storms in the afternoon), and to make decisions based on changing terrain and weather conditions.

Try to catch a festival/feast in Basque Country.

I'm not sure of best weather site, but I found these after a quick search:

http://www.velopyrenees.com/weather_climate_pyrenees.htm
http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-montagne/pyrenees/monp007pyrenees

Do some short “shake-down” trips with all your gear before you set off.

Two months will give you plenty of options.

As you point out in your original post, you will be climbing and descending Mt. Everest 5 times. Don't carry too much gear and food. Go light.

M

I have hiked bits of the Pyrenees each July for the last 5 years.
Over an extended hike you are likely to see a variety of weather. Mostly hot and sunny but there will be short periods of mist or rain, possibly with thunderstorms. Thunderstorms can occur at any time of day, the most spectacular ones I have experienced have been in the middle of the night – quite deafening in a small tent! Snow also varies from year to year – in July there can be none or quite a bit. Last year there was a considerable amount and we had to turn back on a high pass.

I am not up on all the latest brands but this is what clothing I take:
T-shirt and running shorts – wear these most of the time.
Long sleave merino top – for when it's cooler and for sleeping in.
Long pants – for when its cooler.
Light fleece – for cooler evenings/mornings at camp.
Thermal bottoms – for sleeping in when cold.
Rain jacket.
Sun hat and glasses.
I also take rain pants altho rarely use.

Thank you Roger, Michael and Stewart. You are incredibly helpful–thank you for taking the time to write your long posts! And I am really appreciating the encouragement…I was starting to wonder if I'm getting in over my head with this idea re: finances, going alone and difficulty. But it sounds like I can lighten up a lot, won't freeze to death :) and of course, I can stay in the gites d'etape, or just leave the trail if I so desire. I'm now thinking I'll just bring my ATOM LT as my main warmth layer (like the Nano Air, and in place of a fleece). It's heavier than what most of you suggest, but since I get cold, I think it will work for me. I can ditch a lot of the other layers I considered, and just make sure I have warm stuff to sleep in.

What degree quilt do you recommend? Will a quilt (as opposed to a sleeping bag) really be able to keep me warm on the coldest nights?

I have only once experienced an overnight frost in July and that was camping at 2000m. You should just bring whatever sleep system that will keep *you* comfortable down to 40F (5C) (or 32F / 0C if you are still thinking of going in June) and just sleep in spare clothes if it is ever colder. You could use a quilt, or a sleeping bag with a full length zip works just as well.

* Don't place too much credence on manufacturers ratings

One more thing – sandals or flip-flops if you plan to stay or eat in the refuges as outdoor shoes/boots have to be left at the entrance.

In my experience, and based on the feedback from a number of customers (I work at Enligthened Equipment), staying warm in a quilt is more of a mental transition than a physical one. For a lot of folks it takes a few nights out with it to really get used to it, but the parts of your sleeping bag that keep you warm are all still there; it's just the stuff underneath that doesn't keep you warm that's left off. I've personally used quilts (had to use 2, since I was below our lowest rating) down to around -15°F, so assuming the rating is adequate, and you have a plan to keep your head warm, you can definitely stay warm in them.

One downside is that if you do end up staying in the huts, it sounds like you're going to need some sort of liner anyway, since obviously a backless quilt won't keep you off the bed. And overall not everyone loves quilts so you can choose what you like, but for myself I'm not going back to a normal sleeping bag, and there's a few others on this site who say the same.

> sandals or flip-flops if you plan to stay or eat in the refuges as outdoor
> shoes/boots have to be left at the entrance.
Shoes are OK in the dining room – the Lunch Crowd won't take them off after all, but not beyond there. However, you don't have to carry any slippers as the Refuges & Gites all have a great stack of house ones at the door.

Quilts – great things. We took UL ones and they were enough. But note that the Gites a & Refuges all provide very nice fleece blankets.

Yes, you MUST have a liner.

Cheers

Is it actually possible to mail items and/or food to/from myself on the GR 10? (I would have things mailed to/from Malaga, Spain.) Do the gites d'etapes, stores, or post offices handle packages for hikers? And would it be incredibly expensive because it's going from country to country (France to Spain?) I guess packages would have to go through customs and be taxed at an excruciating rate, as well?

Can't post to all Gites d'Etapes as many of them don't have postal service.
Can post to hotels in towns – but contact them first.
Can also post to the local post office, but check their hours of opening. They may be short.

Customs and tax – ZERO. Spain and France are all in the European Union, so there are NO customs at the borders any more. Same currency too.
Chuckle – but the 'tax-free' shops are often still there at the borders, often doing a roaring trade as discount houses for all sorts of things, ranging from supermarket stuff to luxury goods. Are they any cheaper? Doubtful. Odd system.

Cheers

Thanks again everyone!

What size backpack (in liters) do you suggest for a trip like this? (Assuming I can stay around 30 lbs total.)

Ah well. Depends a lot on how compact your gear is.
If your FRAME pack is over 65 L I would suggest getting something smaller. Under 45 L could be problematic.
Do NOT try a frameless pack for a trip of that length with camping. You would regret it. But if you take no tent, sleeping or cooking gear, a 30 L day pack might suffice. That would be a lot less than 30 lb though!

Cheers

I use a pack which claims to hold 45 litres. This is sufficient for my gear and up to 5 days food with my tent, water bottle and ice-axe strapped to the outside. I don't think you need to carry this much food on the GR10 so 45l should give you room for a few extra luxuries.

Another link which may be useful:
http://www.pyreneanway.com/french-pyrenees-gr-10-walk-guide/?lang=en

Add: my pack has a internal frame which I remove with no problems.

I'm looking at either a Granite Gear Blaze Ki, or Crown VC Ki. (The Blaze fits wonderfully; haven't been able to try a Crown VC yet, but if it fits as well, that could shave few ounces.)

My base pack weight is about 17 lbs…still refining.

For clothes, this is where I am at:

Wearing – basically a synthetic LS shirt and synthetic hiking pants (save on sunscreen!)

---

wool underwear (1.1 oz)
wool bra (2.7 oz)
Darn Tough socks (3.2 oz)
Kuhl roll up hiking pants (11.8 oz; nylon w a little spandex)
Royal Robbins long sleeve button down shirt (6.5 oz; UPF 50; 100% polyester, vented)
Buff (~2 oz)
Outdoor Research lightweight gaiters (1.2 oz)

---

28.4 oz

Clothes for rain, cold and camp

---

Marmot Essence rain jacket (5.4 oz)
Marmot Precip rain pants (7.8 oz)
Patagonia Houdini wind jacket (3.25 oz)
Ghost Whisperer down hoody (6.7 oz)
liner gloves and rain mitts (2.4 oz)
down hat (1.0 oz)
camp shoes (7.9 oz) – needed for gites
insulation layer for hiking in ~10oz ? (can't decide between an Atom LT hoody (11.6 oz), midweight wool hoody (8.9 oz) or just a wool zip top (7.5 oz); I don't have a fleece option I like, but that would be in the same weight and warmth range of these anyway…)

---

44.45 oz (2.8 lbs)

Additional clothes – I guess these are luxuries…

---

Marmot short sleeve t-shirt (4.0 oz; polyester, with a little tencel and elastyne)
skirt/sarong/all-purpose thingy (6.3 oz; rayon)
synthetic bra (2.1 oz)
synthetic underwear (1.1 oz)
another pr of Darn Tough socks (3.2 oz)

---

16.7 oz

Sleeping clothes (base layers) – luxuries as well?

---

SmartWool 195-weight long sleeve crew (5.8 oz)
SmartWool 195-weight leggings (5.3 oz)
mountaineering wool socks or down booties (4.7 oz; feet get cold)
3rd pr of underwear for sleeping?? (would be nice; only 1 oz)

---

16.8 oz

So the clothes I am carrying total about 78 oz / 4.9 lbs.

I'd like to keep fresh, separate clothes for sleeping in.

What about my insulation layer? Seems like if I bring an Atom LT (taking the place of a fleece) to hike in when it gets cold, then the down jacket seems to be a bit of a duplicate–other than they serve different functions: I would only wear the down jacket at camp or sleeping for warmth if needed; wouldn't hike in it for fear of sweating in it and losing the warmth and loft. And the Atom LT has side panel vents making it very breathable for wearing while active, but not really a warm jacket while stationary. And I am not sure if a lightweight Smartwool zip top would even be enough warmth for an insulation layer if it gets cold at all in the mountains, esp while hiking in the morning or late evening.

The hiking shirt and pants feel kind of heavy to me…a bit nervous about wearing these for 2 months in hot weather… Thoughts on the materials? Polyester, nylon? These are all outdoor gear brands and are supposedly made to be breathable, but I haven't been able to test them in hot weather yet…

I'm happy that I found a lot of lightweight stuff (and all on sale too!), but I at almost 5 lbs, I am wondering if I am still bringing too many clothes? Any suggestions to swap out, or eliminate?

Hi Sonnie

Just my thoughts.

> wool underwear (1.1 oz)
> wool bra (2.7 oz)
I'm not an expert on female underwear, but wool??? In hot weather???

> Marmot Precip rain pants (7.8 oz)
Optional, and maybe a little heavy.

> camp shoes (7.9 oz) – needed for gites
Really optional. ALL gites have hut slippers at the door.

> insulation layer for hiking in ~10oz ?
Really optional. We have never needed an extra layer. If the weather is that foul – rest day!

> Additional clothes – I guess these are luxuries…
They are, although a clean top for the evenings may be nice.

> another pr of Darn Tough socks (3.2 oz)
Not a luxury, but essential. Wash one pr, wear the other pr.

> 3rd pr of underwear for sleeping?? (would be nice; only 1 oz)
Never wear a bra to bed. BAD idea. UL underpants for bed – yep.

> The hiking shirt and pants feel kind of heavy to me…a bit nervous about wearing
> these for 2 months in hot weather…
On the other hand, they might survve the 2 months! If they are a bit loose and flappy, that's fine.

Cheers

Thanks Roger!

Ah yes, Roger, I see where you told me earlier in the thread that the gites have shoes avail. Stuart, I see you did suggest extra shoes…did you run into refuges that didn't have them, or maybe you just preferred your own?

That would be great, tho, to get rid of the camp shoes. :)

LOL, wool is supposed to be the great temperature regulator…some people here swear by wool for all temperatures, for everything… they are very thin and lightweight… I'll test!

Could I really skip the rain pants? And just keep the rain jacket? That would be great to get rid of 8 oz of dead weight. But I thought the French side was really rainy…. I'd also still like to swap the rain jacket for a poncho, but I figured I'd still need rain pants then…no? Or just hike in wet pants? (Really fearful of being cold and wet tho… :) ).

And no insulation layer? I must really not have a handle on the temps here… There is a possibility of snow still left correct? And some nights at 0 Celsius, and then presumably cool mornings…? Or is it really supposed to just be pretty warm the whole way through? (I was hoping to start June 15.)

So if I don't really need all this warm stuff and yet, I still wanted to take a jacket (that would be acceptable security for me for the weight because I do get cold easily) would you expect I'd need the breathable warm jacket for hiking, or the down jacket for camp or sleeping? Maybe I can eliminate one, and take the weight penalty for the other to be safe?

Yep, agreed, no bra for bed… Just taking a second one to wash and dry while wearing the first.

If it's really that warm tho… Won't the long pants and LS sleeve shirts just really be sticky and miserable? :)

Hi Sonny

The French often use very long ponchos instead. Yes, you could stay up top in a storm if you had all the gear – but why?

> But I thought the French side was really rainy.
Well, you get afternoon showers. The Spanish side is a bit brutal – hot and dry.

> And no insulation layer?
We take a Taslan windshirt for the day, a thermal base layer and a synthetic jacket. Sometimes we also take a UL windshirt (GoLite Wisp) and our ponchos. That's it for the top.

> I was hoping to start June 15.
No earlier.
Yeah, might be cool when you leave the hut, but the sun can be pretty strong once you start walking.

> Won't the long pants and LS sleeve shirts just really be sticky and miserable?
That's the interesting bit. By using loose Taslan/Supplex clothing, rather than slick polyester, the answer is a definite no. The weave itself is not 'sticky'. That's what Sue and I have been wearing walking since about 1980. Sue wears the same stuff gardening at home in the summer (ie, retired walking gear!)

Cheers