Which rechargeable batteries to get?

[Eli Palmer]

(Notice: I don't know much about electronics. If anyone has any comments, suggestions, or warnings please let me know!)

I plan on taking four 18650 rechargeable batteries on a PCT through-hike this year, for powering my e-cig and phone.

The batteries I currently own are "AW IMR 18650 3.7V 2000mAh" and they work fine. I don't know if they are protected, or unprotected, or if that makes a difference. Li-Ion I think?

I would replace these batteries with the highest capacity batteries available, which I believe is 3400mAh. I was thinking of getting these ones (18650 3400mAh Battery [Protected]):

http://www.xtardirect.com/collections/batteries/18650-Batteries

The voltage of batteries I linked are 3.6V. The batteries I currently use are 3.7V. Will that make a difference? Considering these are $20 a pop, are there other batteries I should consider?

Also, I plan on using this charger:

http://www.xtardirect.com/products/xp4-panzer-charger

I'm not sure of the exact weight of the charger, but my current charger only holds two batteries, and weighs 7 oz, most of that coming from the "power block" or whatever it's called (the part that plugs into the wall socket). Is there another (lighter) charger I should consider?

I know this is a hiking forum, but I know some of you must be into this stuff :)

Thanks!

[James holden]

– what is the max length that fits in your devices?

most protected batteries are ~70mm long … you need to make sure that they fit properly

in theory IMR batteries can be a bit "safer" than ICR batteries … but the risk of battery explosion/meltdown is very real regardless if you short it

i HIGHLY recommend a protected li-on battery for the outdoors .. imagine the battery in your pocket/pack and if it should touch metal/get wet and short

this holds doubly true if yr using a headlamp … while good headlamps have voltage protection, remember that theres a bomb strapped to your forehead, additional protection on the bat does not hurt one bit

a simple search will show many videos and posts about exploding/melting li-on bats …

Early Sunday morning I ran out to grab my 4 year old a bagel. I threw my Provari in my pocket, then started heading for the door. I then remembered that I vaped a lot the night before and didn't want the battery to die on me while I drove. So I turned around and quickly pulled a fully charged spare out of my charger and threw it in my pocket. I got in my car and dropped my keys in my cup holder.

When I got to the bagel place, I picked up my keys and put them in my pocket – the same pocket that my loose spare battery was in. This was all it took. My keys landed in such a way that they completed the positive to negative connection – shorting the battery.

As I stood in line half awake, I started feeling something . First I thought I got stung, then I thought I was on fire. I still had no idea what was going on so I put my hand in my pocket and instantly burned my finger. Luckily it wasn't that bad. The plastic melted from the outside all over my keys. Then I heard and felt a slight "pop". I grabbed some napkins and pulled out everything quickly – here's what the battery looked like:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-vaping-discussion/447311-how-my-high-drain-18650-battery-exploded-warning-all.html

18650 bats are great … but you need to understand their failure modes, and use protected bats in real world outdoor conditions

buy a brand name protected cell (if it fits) and a reliable charger … and get a battery case for em and a keep em in a waterproof bag

[Yak Attack]

I think you want protected cells in everything. The unprotected cells are for cell groups where the circuit drawing power from the group has a protection mechanism built in.

Most of mine are in the 2600-3000 mah range. I think you'll notice the extra capacity if you jump up the mah rating from 2000-3000, which is 50%!

The AW cells are good batteries, with a widely known positive reputation. I'd shy away from the [whatever]-fire brands. I have a few that are "ultra fire", and while they function ok, I think their actual capacity is closer to 1400mah vs the claimed 2600 mah.

I also have another brand that I found a couple of years ago called "redilast" I think. They've been very nice cells, but with only one complaint. They are about 1.5mm longer than my AW cells, and won't fit properly into one flashlight that I have.

I have two chargers, both dual cell. The Pila weighs 7.65 oz, and an ultra fire that weighs 4.95oz. The experts will tell you that the Pila is a better device for some technical reasons, but in a practical sense I haven't been able to tell any difference.

I'm not a battery or charger expert, just a somewhat experienced user if the 18650 cells. If you go read over at candlepowerforums.net, that's where the really smart people are.

There are some chargers and batteries that are crap be for the price of these things, I think it's worth the time to educate yourself on options and drawbacks.

[Owen McMurrey]

IMR are unprotected, and intended for (very)high current draw applications.
3.6-3.7 is just the "nominal" voltage, and the cells should be ~4.2v when charged.
Definitely go for higher mAh protected cells. I always stick with AW for li-ions. Great quality, and he has been solid to deal since long before he was a brand name.

[Eli Palmer]

Eric Chan-

I was under the assumption that 18650 had something to do with the length/size of the battery.

From another forum: "an 18650 is 18mm in diameter and 65mm long. The '0' at the end just means it's a round (cylindrical, actually) battery."

I'm definitely going for protected batteries as you suggest.

Thanks!

Yak Attack-

I looked into the AW (is that the company?) batteries, however I should not find anything over 2200mAh unfortunately.

I will look into the Ultra-fire chargers because they weigh less as you say.

Will check out candleforums.com for further advice.

Thanks!

Owen-

Do you know if AW makes a 3400 mAh battery?

Thanks!

[Owen McMurrey]

http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Protected-3400-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-_p_4149.html

Out of stock there right now, but Lighthound was always an excellent dealer for batteries and certain custom parts.

You may still be able to order straight from AW on the "cpfmarketplace" forum, but I haven't looked at it in the last year or two.

[James holden]

the 18650 battery name is no longer accurate … they have progressively gotten longer beyond the original spec as protection has been added

the name is more accurately 18700, but no one calls em that for marketing purposes

i would NOT suggest your buy anything with "fire" in the name …

generally ultrafires, trustfires, etc .. are not reliable

li-on batteries and charges is one place where you DONT want to cheap out

heres an ultrafire going BOOM

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded

get a battery that is based on a panasonic cell … and a proven charger …

the folks on vaping or flashlight forums would have more info than BPL

;)

[Bob Gross]

I use those type 18650 batteries. I have some here and more on order. I find the Panasonic unprotected ones to be very good. I buy them from Amazon.com for about $9-10 each.

As was mentioned, 3.7 or 3.6 volts is just the nominal voltage rating. When fully charged, mine show about 4.15 or 4.17 volts.

Obviously, these special batteries do not fit everywhere, but the more that I use them the more I like them, but I use five or six different types of batteries all the time.

–B.G.–

[Eli Palmer]

The most surprising thing I've gotten out of this thread is that there are extremely active forums dedicated to nothing but flashlights.

I shouldn't be surprised but I am.

Thanks for the tips I'm going to go register over there.

[Ryan Smith]

I use Orbtronic 3400mah batteries and they've worked great for me. They're based on the Panasonic cells.

http://www.orbtronic.com/protected-3400mah-18650-li-ion-battery-panasonic-ncr18650B-orbtronic

They are often housed in an ENB power pack that's in the 2-3oz range.

Ryan

[Eli Palmer]

I just asked this question over at reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette and got this reply:

"the 3400 protected batteries are not for ecig use, the protection chip will kill the battery at the amp draws that an ecig draws. not to mention that that chemistry is explosive. Get the Samsung 18650 2500mAh 3.6V INR18650 25R Batteries, they are the best on the market right now for vaping (unless you are going below .21Ω, then get the Sony VTC4 18650 2100mAh"

[James holden]

lol … reddit

theres ALOT of bad advice on reddit … i wont speak to that particular tidbit you got, but theres plenty of bad and unsafe climbing advice on that places climbing forums …. so id ask around some more

there are protected hybrid IMR bats if you look around, panasonic also makes those rated at 3200 mAh … you can buy all of these including NCR18650b 3400 protected bats at vape shops … i dont vape i just buy batteries off those shops sometimes

http://www.hazevapeco.com/category-s/1979.htm

personally i would not buy an unprotected battery for rigorous outdoor use

the first story i posted above is someone use a panasonic protected hybrid IMR for vaping (so folks DO use protected bats for it) and triggering the protection with a short

also in there is this vid of folks short circuiting an IMR battery where it reached 230 F

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haMDZOfjqsE&feature=youtu.be

heres an IMR unprotected bat that went BOOM

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-information/190146-pictures-serious-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html

as you can see in the link i posted alot of this "advice" in the forums become "dick measuring contests" (im measuring mine right now) about folk arguing about what is "better", or rather what they do themselves is "best"

ask around beyond the intrawebs (or at least ask reputable sites and manufacturers) and make youre own decision … remember its even more important not to get your bats wet, especially if they are unprotected, and have em short in any way …

ive seen folks in climbing take advice from reddit … some of it very bad indeed

;)

[Ian]

I'll leave all the technical stuff to Eric. I'm fairly new to 18650s and don't hsve enough time with them.

I will say that I bought some Panasonic 18650 batteries off of Amazon to have as spares for my flashlight at work. Unfortunately they don't have the necessary tab on the positive end to work with my flashlight so you'll want to know if your gadgets need that tab and research/purchase accordingly.

[James holden]

ian you can buy magnetic spacers from many vape shops

http://www.avidvaper.com/magnetic-battery-spacers/

however some folks advocate a bit of hear resistant glue or solder at the edges to prevent them from coming off and shorting something

a blob of solder also works if yr handy with an iron

also as a side note …. vancouver is known for vaping and medical marijuana use shops… not only do these shops carry 18650 bats/chargeers … they also have the most accurate digital scales around for good reason

;)

[Eli Palmer]

I figured I would just email the guy who makes my e-cig and ask him, waiting for a reply.

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