Katabatic Gear New Years Sale.

Wow…10% off!

LOL

…that's 10% better than 0%.

Something is better than nothing.

The Artemis is pretty tempting at 20% off….

"Something is better than nothing."

Unless it is overpriced to begin with.

Katabatic makes extremely high quality sleeping bags. The construction is immaculate, and the temperature ratings are very conservative. For the price they are very competitive with all the other high end bag companies. If you think the entire sleeping bag world is overpriced, fine, but I don't think Katabatic deserves to be singled out.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, Eli.

Having looked over Katabatic and EE products recently, I cannot see where the extra 30-40% in upcharge comes from. So no, I don't think the " entire sleeping bag world is overpriced." I am just not a sucker for perceived brand value.

What are you brands are you comparing Katabatic to?

Steve

I would compare Katabatic to Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends. Having owned multiple bags from all the major players and most of the cottage brands, the others don't readily compare as well. With five quilts from Katabatic and a hood, I am more than willing to put my money where I feel the best value is. Admittedly, I am at a point in my life where the cost of backpacking equipment is relatively insignificant compared to other interests and expenses, but I recognize that may not be true for others.

Having said that, I also am very value oriented and feel that in spite of the cost the value proposition is still there. I am not even sure I would call Katabatic "cottage" – the products have been so well commercialized. There are a number of fine products that "get the job done" at very attractive prices and may be a better value for some. I have a MYOG quilt that gets used almost daily in the winter at home and is my car camping go to bag. Quality materials to be sure, but the execution of the design and construction are only garage sale worthy, nevertheless it "works" and for some that is what counts.

Western Mountaineering stuff rarely goes on sale either, and not for much. If anything, Katabatic stuff is higher quality than WM at a comparable price. Don't mind Oscar the BPL Grouch.

Ordered a Palisade 30F in Short and 900 fill.

Never seen a sale on these before….so any discount is a great thing.

I bought a Aslek 22F on the gear swap last year and love that is solved all the issues that my prior JRB Quilt was lacking, but at much higher price.

EE Quilts have a great reputation for workmanship and value, but there are some differences that I think that Katabatic quilts have….such as a draft tube for the chest, snaps for securing the opening of the quilt around your neck to block heat loss and drafts….also elastic edging to "pull" the bottoms of the quilt around you.

For me, that offers enough value to justify the additional cost.

I tend to look at Katabatic gear as the "Mercedes Benz" of quilts.

They are not cheap, but if money is no object, then all roads lead to them.

Again, nothing against any other manufactures out there, but I think that it is a bit unfair to say that Katabatic does not offer value for the premium they are charging above other manufactures.

Here is a review from Outdoor Gear Lab

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews/Katabatic-Gear-Palisade

Tony

I'm glad to see this conversation come full circle. I'm also glad that someone else was able to take advantage of the (small) discount.

"If anything, Katabatic stuff is higher quality than WM at a comparable price"

Can you quantify what would make Katabatic higher quality? I've never had one of their quilts so I'm curious. They both use the same Pertex fabric and essentially the same down. WM's sewing is perfect, I assume Katabatic's is also. A comparable 20F bag from WM is $70 cheaper.

Ryan

We have several people telling us about how high the quality of the quilts are but not defining any attributes which make the price premium over something like what EE offers reasonable. I can ignore attempts at humour or jabbing at my commentary but to generally claim that these quilts are of higher quality that WM or FF reeks of post purchase pardom.

Like Ryan, I too want to know what these attributes are and why a comparable WM is cheaper. If I am missing something, maybe I would consider buying one.

(PS: the Mercedes Benz analogy is quite bad. They make some pretty sh8tty models that are of poor quality – remember the ML320? But the perceived brand value allowed them to sell a bunch of them. The models that are very good and very expensive offer a ton of technical advancements over other cars. Not only is there perceived value here but actual, quantifiable value)

By the way, EE is having a 15% off Garage Sale right now….; )

Ryan,

I've had three WM sleeping bags (an Ultralite, a Summerlite and a Versalite), as well as two Katabatic quilts (an Alsek and an overstuffed Sawatch.) The build quality from both manufacturers is best in class. Hard to compare them here as they are both flawless.

The difference, in my opinion, is in the design and materials. I think you are incorrect about the fabric – WM uses their ExtremeLite fabric, whereas Katabatic uses Pertex Quantum. I think Quantum is slightly lighter than ExtremeLite (can't find the spec right now), has a slightly better DWR in my experience, and I prefer the next-to-skin feel of Quantum. They both use the best down in the business, though with Katabatic you can get DWR-treated down as an option.

Additionally, while the WM bags are damn good, I think the product design is simply better on the Katabatic. WM's hoods never really worked for me, and I had problems with down shifting with both WM bags. In contrast, I can't come up with a single thing I'd change on the Katabatic bags. I've had no problems with down shifting, and the strap system, neck baffle, elastic binding, and shape of the bags are fantastic. Of course, a lot of this has to do with quilts vs. bags and is my own subjective opinion, but in my opinion the Katabatic stuff is just a more well-executed product. Keep in mind I'm talking about the differences between a 9.8 and 9.9 out of 10 for both manufacturers…

Not sure where you got $70 cheaper. Here are prices I just pulled from the web:

Western Mountaineering Ultralite 20F – $484.95
Katabatic Alsek 22F – $495.00

I've never used or seen an EE quilt in person so I can't compare.

From my closet

EE- budget friendly and solid
Nanutuk – pricey but solid
Katabatic – highest quality and way warmer than advertised . I got it when they first started so it was much cheaper.

Thanks for posting Andrew. I appreciate the input. I've been considering picking up a Katabatic quilt through Gear Swap if the price was right, and you've helped solidify that. Couple thoughts on your post:

Regarding the price, I was comparing an Alsek 22 in the same width as an UL 20 (58" vs 59" actually) and came up with $55-$70 cheaper depending on length, which website, etc. (I require a Long). Plus, any sleeping bag hood is a YMMV kind of thing, but you do get a hood. Factor in the price of a Katabatic Windom to complement the Alsek and we're at an even larger price difference(I'm assuming everyone requires head insulation at 15-20F). I know that's kind of a quilt vs bag thing instead of WM vs Katabatic.

Also, WM used Pertex Quantum for several years, but they did go proprietary somewhat recently. I know the UL 20 I had used Pertex. Either way, its still a 20D fabric, however. Things like better DWR and fabric feel are pretty subjective, but definitely something to consider.

Ryan

I completely agree Ryan. I got lots of great use out of my Ultralite. Saving 8 oz with the quilt is probably the biggest functional difference between the two. Both are great products.

From my perspective, if we just compare 2 quilts – katabatic Sawatch and the EE Enigma Elite – that seem to get high marks consistently I think the price difference is not that great when considering the additional features of the Katabatic which costs about $110 more. The Sawatch 15* has 2.5 +/_ ounces of additional down (18 vs 15.5 in a regular wide) , down collar, elastic binding, and what I consider the most important feature the differential cut. Yes the Sawatch will weigh a few ounces more even after adjusting for the down quantity, but from a value perspective I think the extra features and a few ounces justify the additional cost.
I own an EE quilt (and think it is great) and picked up a Sawatch during the sale. The difference was only $53 for my spec. In the end they are both great products and we each have different values and perspectives on gear. Not sure there is a "better" ..it is a matter of what we each place value on.

I owned two WM bags (a 2003 Ultralite and a 2006 Summerlite) and had a Katabatic Palisade that I will agree was higher quality than the WM. The stitching was better on the Katabatic and it was stuffed to the gills with down. I bought it when they first came out so it was cheaper. That being said I don't own it anymore as it was too narrow (this was before they came out with the wide version) so I sold it and had Javan Dempsey build me a quilt. The JD quilt is wider but minimalist so it weighs less than a comparable Katabatic but the sewing isn't on the same level, nor is z packs (I own a twin quilt). I don't own any EE gear so I can't comment on their quality and that would certainly be where I would recommend someone go on a budget (or the now defunct Golite quilts), but the Katabatic cut and sewing was the best I have ever seen on down gear. I was truly amazed.

That being said my JD quilt, Golite ultra 20, and z packs double quilt are fully functional and do the job just fine (thought the Golite isn't really good to 20*). The fit/finish/polish of the Katabatic was better by far.

Looking at probably the easiest comparison between the two companies, a zero degree bag from FF is about $600, while a 5 degree bag from Katabatic is about $580. Seems very competitive and not over priced.

I had a Palisade, but the quilt function didn't work for me. I have 2 FF bags (Swallow, Vireo). Quality was a just a bit better on the Katabatic, mainly in fabric choice.

Steve

I just looked at the FF Flicker, which is a hoodless bag / quilt. Rated to 20F and compared to the Alsek @ 22F, the FF is just under $100 cheaper.

I would like to see some more comparisons to validate the additional costs.

Having said that, I appreciate the comparisons – keep them coming.

While they both are quilts, I don't think that is a fair comparison. The Alsek has an encompassing footbox, shaped for your feet to stick up. The Flicker is just a flat quilt that can be zipped along it's length, drawstring at the foot end.

I think the additional design/labor of the Alsek would justify the increased cost.

Steve

Dave…here's the thing I want to know. Are you genuinely interested in the quilts or are you just looking for evidence to support your opinion?

If we're being honest here…It's extremely rare for a person to be able to properly justify the pricing of one manufacturer vs the competition of any industry. To be able to do that you have to have all the operating costs, supply/demand, abundance of testing data and pricing (the only one which we have in front of us) of each company…that's just not feasible so what's the point of asking?

If you want to know how Katabatic prices their quilts then just ask them: http://katabaticgear.com/contact-us/

The only things BPL can offer you is personal experiences and opinions of how Katabatic compares to the competition. You got that already and it flew in the face of your own uninformed opinion.

Since you asked about the Flicker vs Alsek:

+ Alsek is 5oz lighter (21oz vs 26oz)
+ Alsek is more difficult to make (footbox)
+ Alsek is better sealed from the elements (no zipper, closed footbox).

— I would also include the Katabatic attachment system but you chose to compare a bag to a quilt so that's a feature that doesn't offer any advantage.

Aside from that, they're quite similar and I'd love to have either quilt.

On a purely weight savings comparison the Alsek saves 5oz for $100 ($20/oz saved). For some people anybody who's looking to cut pack weight to the extreme that isn't too bad…The cost/oz saved ratio for shelters gets much, MUCH higher at the top tier of products.

…EE Revelation Elite vs Katabatic Palisade comparison coming in another post…

"Dave…here's the thing I want to know. Are you genuinely interested in the quilts or are you just looking for evidence to support your opinion?"

I am trying to understand why the Katabatic quilts are so much more expensive than the EE quilts.

"If we're being honest here…It's extremely rare for a person to be able to properly justify the pricing of one manufacturer vs the competition of any industry. To be able to do that you have to have all the operating costs, supply/demand, abundance of testing data and pricing (the only one which we have in front of us) of each company…that's just not feasible so what's the point of asking?"

No, I don't need to know that. What I need to know is if there are any real differences between a Katabatic quilt and an EE quilt that can be quantified. Justified, no. Quantified, yes. Do you think that EE has such effective economies of scale that it can produce the quilts at a significant discount? UL backpackers (myself included) get so wrapped up in brand value that most 'perspective' is disingenuous to begin with.

"If you want to know how Katabatic prices their quilts then just ask them: http://katabaticgear.com/contact-us/"

You want me to ask a manufacturer why their quilts are so expensive. What do you think the answer would be?

"The only things BPL can offer you is personal experiences and opinions of how Katabatic compares to the competition. You got that already and it flew in the face of your own uninformed opinion."

And this is what I am looking for. I have been on these forums since 2006. The BPL gear review is dead and therefore, I have to go by users experiences. My own uninformed opinion? How is asking why Katabatic quilts are so expensive and uninformed opinion?

With respect to the Flicker comparison, I suspect anyone with internet access can compare specifications (you are off a bit on weight given the type of cut – width, length – but I don't really care). Who has used the two quilts and can provide an independent commentary?

We see some who have used both the EE and Katabatic quilts and the comparison is far more valid for me.

Why didn't you just start with this? "…EE Revelation Elite vs Katabatic Palisade comparison coming in another post…"

Just think. Years down the road when someone does a search, they will see independent comparisons between quilts just because I dared to push the norm and ask.

You are welcome future backpackers….