2014 Staff Picks

[Monty Montana]

Hi Justin,

A bamboo shafted ice ax, I think that's a terrific idea! I, too, made alpenstocks for myself and friends when living in the PNW, where bamboo, having gone over the wall from backyard gardens, now grows wild in certain city parks and vacant lots and is free for the taking. And you're right, it's super strong, light, resilient, and can be easily field repaired.

Back in the day, all x-country ski poles were bamboo. Why? Because they are strong, light, resilient, and can be field repaired. It's very hard to break bamboo; when stressed it tends to split along the length of the shaft between the joints, unlike CF or alu poles, which can just snap in two. All that is necessary to repair a bamboo pole is a few turns of electrician's or duct tape: voila, fixed! My poles, made in Norway by Liljedahl, the first and only poles I've ever had, much older than the majority of the participants on this site, are still going strong, and only one has a bit of tape wrap. The weight is about 9 oz.

In addition, there are bikes frames now being made of bamboo (and there always have been rims made of rosewood). Ice axe handles, too, once were made of natural materials at one time, until REI put one under several tons of pressure on a hydraulic press and said, "see, they break, so you need to buy one of our new metal shafted ice axes." And so went the way of the industry.

So, yah, I'd like to see a Ti/bamboo snow tool; sign me up!

[Paul McLaughlin]

Bamboo ice axe shaft: It's been done. I believe it was Chouinard that made it; laminated solid bamboo. In the 70's.

[Anonymous]

Hi Monty,

I suspect a composite of CF and Bamboo, might be better than just straight bamboo or straight CF. They both have strengths the other lacks and their weaknesses are balanced by the others strengths some.

In reality, i know almost nothing concrete about ice axes, having never used one nor having done much research–i'm not even close to being sure if such a blend would work or not. I've just been impressed by bamboo.

If it is a feasible solution for a "poor person's" ice axe, i wonder which material would be better to be on the outside, the CF or the Bamboo?

I do know enough to say, if you want the ultimate in durability for least weight, an all titanium ice axe would be your best bet.

[Billy Ray]

"If it is a feasible solution for a "poor person's" ice axe…"

While you guys are considering the cost of your 'poor person's' ice axe, you should include the medical and lost wages costs :)

er… just pay the bucks for a real ice axe guys…

billy

[Andrew F]

Sadly the bamboo + carbon fiber won't work. The carbon will be much stiffer than the bamboo, and will break before the bamboo takes any significant portion of the load.

[Anonymous]

"Sadly the bamboo + carbon fiber won't work. The carbon will be much stiffer than the bamboo, and will break before the bamboo takes any significant portion of the load."

You may be right, but that's why i was thinking having a CF rod inside a bamboo rod. While the bamboo rod is inherently more flexible with greater modulus (of rigidity) than the CF, the internal CF will provide some internal stiffness so that the bamboo will tend to flex less to begin with. It's possible that it could flex too much and the CF snap inside the bamboo, but the bamboo should provide some initial cushion and lateral support so that in the combo, you would need greater force and stress to snap the CF than you would if the CF was by itself.

I won't say it will or won't work, that's too absolute for me. I'm more comfortable with saying it may work and it may not. I'm even comfortable with saying, it will likely not work, but not "won't".

[Roger Caffin]

> The carbon will be much stiffer than the bamboo, and will break before the bamboo
> takes any significant portion of the load.
Sadly, it is worse than that. Since the CF is so stiff it will probably delaminate from the bamboo.

Cheers

[Anonymous]

What if these are more mechanically fitted rather than relying purely on laminate? One slightly smaller rod inside another? Still use some expoxy, and "plug" up the ends of course.

[Roger Caffin]

To what end? The bamboo just adds weight to the handle.
If you are going to add any weight, do it to the HEAD!

Cheers

[Bob Moulder]

What if these are more mechanically fitted rather than relying purely on laminate? One slightly smaller rod inside another? Still use some expoxy, and "plug" up the ends of course.

By the time you do all this it will weigh just as much as (if not more than) an aluminum or titanium shaft and probably cost more as well. Probably won't stand up to very much boot belaying, either, and basically all you've got is a carbon shaft with a bamboo veneer.

I saw a segment on "How It's Made" showing the construction of a bamboo bicycle. Really just the main triangle tubes and the seat- and chain-stays. The lugs holding the bamboo tubes were super long and there was a god-awful amount of glue injected into the lugs. Never read any ride reports, but probably a halfway decent low-middle range carbon Trek would blow it away.

Definitely got cachet, though.

But people are trying different techniques using bamboo as the base material.

[Anonymous]

"By the time you do all this it will weigh just as much as (if not more than) an aluminum or titanium shaft and probably cost more as well."

For the first part, no doubt, but weight is not the most important factor to me. As regards the 2nd part..hmmm, maybe for a manufacturer, but for a DIY person like myself, it would make the project MUCH cheaper. CF is generally expensive, but having made hiking poles out of re-purposed golf driver shafts, i know i can get it quite cheap too.

And the price of bamboo? Free or a couple dollars at Home Depot for pre dried/treated stuff. So yeah, except for the axe part of it, i could make the shaft for dirt cheap if i really wanted to. I don't care how much it costs a manufacturer, if i could make it (the shaft) for dirt cheap myself. The trouble would more be finding a bamboo that more exactly fits over a re-purposed CF shaft/rod.

"Probably won't stand up to very much boot belaying, either,"

I'll have to trust you on that one, having no experience base to speak from. I do know from experience with DIY hiking poles, that bamboo is tougher than it looks or may seem. Did you read Monty's previous post? Perhaps not impressive to you, but impressive to me. Would it compare to titanium, nah, of course not, but bamboo is a renewable resource, which grows quickly and easily. Titanium of course, is very expensive and finite and thus will only become more expensive as time goes on. At some point, we have to start looking at alternatives… Aluminum is plentiful and should be for awhile it will eventually become a rare and precious metal in raw form, and while we can recycle it, this takes energy and resources. 7 billion people and rising exponentially…

If all the folks that come up with innovative ideas, or think outside the box, or whom have creative, original traits/perceptions listened over much to those who tend to the conservative or traditional, well not much innovation or evolution progression would ever happen because the constant conservative skepticism and, near knee jerk "no, that won't work" attitude would overwhelm any enthusiasm or impetus. Thankfully though, people in the former categories tend to march more to their own drumming as compared to the average person or society as a whole.

Ask any now well established/known innovator type how much resistance and negativity they met, how many times they were told by most around them, "no, you can't do that" or "no, that won't work", you'd might be surprised how common a theme that is.

[Steven Evans]

Man, you guys are trouble makers!;) You do realize that this type of discussion is exactly how we ended up with the origianl TICA ice tool…and it was good fun too. I literally know nothing about bamboo so I am not able to comment on how well it will work, or how suitable it would be when alloyed with carbon fiber, but I also would have nothing against using it as long as I could ensure some level of uniformity in strength between shafts – so I'm listening.

Of course, you know what else is really cool? Titanium. Now thats a real axe!

[Bob Moulder]

the folks that come up with innovative ideas, or think outside the box, or whom have creative, original traits/perceptions listened over much to those who tend to the conservative or traditional, well not much innovation or evolution progression would ever happen because the constant conservative skepticism and, near knee jerk "no, that won't work" attitude would overwhelm any enthusiasm or impetus

Point is, there is nothing new or innovative about it. See Paul McLaughlin's comment above.

You can have one of your own for $750.00. ;^)

[Anonymous]

"Point is, there is nothing new or innovative about it. See Paul McLaughlin's comment above."

Actually, the point is, i wasn't aware that even existed until now. Another point is that i'm talking a blend of bamboo and CF and that is purely a bamboo laminate.

You also glossed over all the holistic points i made about sustainability issues, which are very real issues that while we may not like to think about them, will become very in our face sooner than later. Unless strong outside variables are introduced to radically change the path of humanity.

[Sheldon Miller]

Its interesting to go back to the old staff picks posts. In 2004 the comments were all postings of readers 3 favorite items from the past year. No matter how large (or small) the BPL staff, there will always be more of us subscribers with a resulting broader experience base. Critiquing or even commenting on staff picks can be helpful, but not nearly so helpful as the older way of providing our own favorites.

[Ken Thompson]

"there will always be more of us subscribers with a resulting broader experience base. Critiquing or even commenting on staff picks can be helpful, but not nearly so helpful as the older way of providing our own favorites."

Absolutely true and thanks for reminding me.

[Buck Nelson]

That was my photo of the broken ULA Helix "Ice Axe" above. I bought it for steep spots on the PCT assuming it would hold up in case I needed to do a self arrest. It broke while I was chopping snow to melt for cooking.

Assuming the tests done on the "MYOG Titanium/Carbon Fiber Ice Axe" page were done for this Ice Tool, it says.

It snapped where the head would be at an equivalent load of 47 pounds (26.5 kilograms). This is 35% of the UIAA rating. I can easily imagine subjecting this tool to more than 47 pounds at this point in an actual self arrest while hiking.

The order page for the Ice Tool says The TiCa Ice Tool is not a replacement for a UIAA-certified ice axe on technical terrain and should not be used where life or safety is at risk. I think it is wise to ask yourself if you are, in fact, depending on this to do a self arrest.

The Camp Corsa Ice Axe, a certified ice axe (much stronger) weighs about 7 oz vs 5 oz for the Ice tool.

I'm sure the review and the sale of this tool is in good faith, but that's my 2 cents on the matter.

[Anonymous]

"The Camp Corsa Ice Axe, a certified ice axe (much stronger) weighs about 7 oz vs 5 oz for the Ice tool."

Exactly the difference between ultra lite and stupid lite.

[Author]

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