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I’m converted to light wieght

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Doug Smith BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 7:16 pm

Well, after my last backpacking trip to Minaret Lake, this past September, I'm converted to light weight. My pack weight was inn the 50-55lb range, with water, food, and camera gear (plus dog kibble). It was so heavy that even though I saw some gorgeous scenery, I knew for a fact I would be finding it WAY more enjoyable if I wasn't so beat.

So this coming summer I'm going to give the high Sierra another go, but with a fraction of the weight. I'm going to trade comfort at camp for comfort on the trail. I know this is what I've been reading on this site for the past several years, so all of you good folks are probably chuckling, and thinking, "I told you so", and rightfully so. I basically came to the realization that I was either going to quit backpacking, or lighten to the point I found the trip enjoyable. Here are some of the ways I'm going to shed weight:

-Going dogless- I feel bad about this one. I really enjoy Vixen's company on the trail, and she provides a great deal of peace of mind as far as bears are concerned. But I have to be honest with myself, and she just didn't have as much fun as I'd hoped she would. I've packed with her for years, and she gets tired faster than I do, and can't stand warm temps and high elevations. So at 3 cups of kibble a day, plus extra water containers, that is a significant space and weight savings.

-Lighter shelter- At nearly 7 lbs, my Hilleberg Jannu was a beast. I knew it was way overkill going into it, but I'd just bought the tent and was super excited to give it a try. I haven't decided on what my shelter system will be for my next trip, but the weight will be cut in half, at least.

-Cooking- I've been using my gas canister and screw on stove, but I think I'm going to switch to my solid fuel tabs for the next trip. I also always take way too much food, and will cut back considerably for the next trip.

-Camera gear- Last trip I took my full frame camera, a tripod, two lenses, lens adapter, several filters, three batteries, three memory cards, etc… I'll only be taking one lens, two batteries and cards instead of three, no adapter, and either a lighter tripod or none at all. I might even try one of those set-ups for using my trekking poles.

-Water purification- I'm going to try the iodine tablets instead of my Sawyer Squeeze. I'll try them at home first, to make sure I can stomach the taste, but the Sawyer squeeze has been incredibly slow and a huge hassle for me on the trips I've taken it on now. I badly wanted to like it, but I just can't get it to filter a usable amount of water in anything close to a reasonable amount of time. The majority of my free time in camp was spent filtering water for Vixen and I.

As for sleep system and clothing, I have those dialed in pretty good. My gear keeps me warm and is lightweight, without being uncomfortable… 30* down quilt and Neoair X-therm pad.

So anyways, this is basically me just thinking out loud, but I wanted to throw out a thanks for all the folks here who have repeatedly told me over the years that going lighter will make the trip more fun. I'm going to give it a shot.

Stephen M BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 7:42 pm

Hi Doug,

Have a look at the Anjan 2, it's half the weight
of the Jannu.

Doug Smith BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 8:08 pm

"You're stubborn. I knew you'd cross over at some point. Welcome."

Haha, thanks Ken! I think I earned that. ;-)

Stephen, if I decide to go with another Hilleberg (which is somewhat likely, given my tastes), I'm leaning towards the Akto. It is half the weight of the Jannu as well, and with mods, can be made even lighter. My other option is a hammock. I now have a really nice hammock set-up, what with my WBBB and Edge tarp. The problem is I'd really like to give the HIGH Sierra a try this summer, like the way above treeline part. So a fairly sturdy tent (for winds more than anything) is the direction I'm leaning.

As for the camera, I'm even considering leaving the full frame at home and taking a light point'n'shoot, like the Sony RX100III. The only thing holding me back from making the switch right now is the focal length. The RX100 series only go as wide as 24mm (35mm equivalent), and I've found from gazing at Flickr that my favorite Sierra landscape photos are almost all shot at 16mm.

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 8:08 pm

"I'm going to try the iodine tablets"

There isn't much weight involved. However, I think that you will find that lots of people find the iodine taste unacceptable. Try chlorine dioxide tablets or else drops for the least taste.

–B.G.–

Justin Baker BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 8:10 pm

Hey Doug, a trailstar is very, very wind resistant and weighs 20 ounces (without a center pole, guy lines, stakes). And it's roomy.

Doug Smith BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 8:28 pm

Bob, I'll be sure to try out both the chlorine and iodine tablets before I go. I am also toying with the idea of using drops of iodine, instead of the tablets (if I can handle the taste). The reason being, my water purification would then be a multi-use item, since iodine is my favorite wound cleaner by a large margin (used to use it extensively when I worked on the ambulance).

Justin, I haven't ruled out tarps yet, and summer is far enough away I have lots of time to plan for gear changes. Here's my concern about a tarp style shelter; I can't stand creepy crawlies. I'm not sure that this is a huge issue if I'm really at very high elevations. Some of you folks who have been there can shed some light. The bigger reason is temp. My down quilt is very light and comfy, but being a 30*, I planned on it being used inside a dual-walled tent like a Hilleberg, and it's been working out great. With a tarp style shelter I'm concerned that the temp rating would no longer be good enough, and also about down with possible rainwater under a tarp. Long story short, if I went with a tarp, I'd have far more peace of mind with a synthetic bag, and that would negate the advantages of my already great quilt.

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 8:44 pm

"I'll be sure to try out both the chlorine and iodine tablets before I go."

I think you want chlorine dioxide tablets, not chlorine. There is a difference.

–B.G.–

PostedDec 27, 2014 at 9:01 pm

Doug, you've been at BPL long enough to know that there are plenty of know-it-alls like me around here.

When it comes to chemical treatment, there's Aqua Mira then there's everything else (chlorine dioxide).

Iodine? Please. As a last resort maybe. Research a little and you'll find that iodine drops don't protect very well. And the taste… my God man!

Justin Baker BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 9:06 pm

Doug, it's true that double wall tents trap in more heat and you need less insulation (but nearly enough to justify the weight of bringing a fully enclosed shelter). For long trips in extended wet weather the open shelter will keep you warmer because the ventilation leads to a drier sleeping bag.
I've had water run under my tarp before. It usually doesn't happen unless your site has poor drainage or it rains super hard. This issue can be solved with a bathtub groundsheet. With a bathtub groundsheet and a pyramid with full protection, there is no way for you to get wet.
I don't have an answer for your creepy crawly issue. Marmots are vicious animals. They are known to form large groups and attack campers at night. The campers barely have time to react before they are devoured by the beasts. Marmots are likely responsible for the majority of unsolved missing person cases in the high sierras.

PostedDec 27, 2014 at 9:07 pm

Chlorine, Iodine…. both are poison…
I just don't understand why anyone wants to leave the city for the fresh air and pristine environment and then poison their water…
I don't know about you guys, but I spend a significant amount of money at home filtering the chlorine out of my tap water for my health… and the taste… can't stand the taste of chlorine in tap water…

May I suggest a filter or UV device???

billy…

Richard May BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 9:09 pm

+1 on chlorine dioxide, taste much better.

I also like the Steripen very much and cary Aquamira as a backup.

Reducing base weight may allow you to take all the camera gear comfortably.

The other option, as you are considering, is applying the lightweight mindset—take only what you use everyday. You won't have the gear needed for every image but you'll have it for 80% of them. The other 20%? Just enjoy the moment.

Deciding to leave Vixen at home has got to be tough—probably the toughest decision.

Katherine . BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 9:33 pm

How much food were you bringing? Easy to overdo. Sort of easy to fix, if you have some shorter trips to track how much you consume. I have mine dialed in at about 1.5 lbs/day (for now). The first and last half days are a hair trickier to calculate.

Heck, if you sold the Jannu you'd have a ton of funds in your paypal account to get a fully enclose-able cuben shelter with a few hundred left over! Which ones appeal to you? Do you need suggestions, or do you already have a short list?

PostedDec 27, 2014 at 11:24 pm

Doug I've come from carrying a 55-60 lb pack and pussyfooted my way down doing what I felt safe and my advise is to jump all the way down. I went from a seven pound tent to a 4.5 to 2.8 to 41oz to 27 oz to 13oz it sure would have been cheaper and faster to skip a few steps. I use a wild oasis and I'm pretty happy with it but I would maybe be happier with a solomid with perimeter netting for bugs.

Doug Smith BPL Member
PostedDec 27, 2014 at 11:29 pm

Justin, thanks for the insight on the rain issue as it relates to tarps. Better ventilation causing it to dry faster is an aspect I hadn't considered. As for the marmots…haha. I like your theory. But when I said creepy crawlies, I wasn't referring to critters. Those don't bother me. I have an deep dislike for arachnids, insects, etc. I'm OK with snakes, rodents, and even big cats (already had one close encounter in the wild)…but spiders scare the crap out of me. ;-)

Richard, you're absolutely right about leaving Vixen being the toughest of the decisions. It finally came down to me asking myself if I'm bringing her along for my enjoyment, or for hers. When I realized that the scales tipped in my favor I realized it was the right choice to leave her home. The second hardest decision was the photo gear. I've always brought tons of heavy gear hoping for that one "perfect shot" that I'm really happy with, and never happen to get. On my last trip I finally realized I was spending more time trying to get shots that I really ended up not liking anyways, instead of actually enjoying the moment. The hard part comes when I go to Flickr sites like Cliff Laplant's ("Sierralara") and imagine myself taking shots like those…then I want to bring all the heavy gear again. lol

Kat, I primarily pack Mountain House meals, but I think on my next trip I'm going to try to expand my eating horizons a bit. For one thing, I always bring at least double the meals that I end up eating. For two, they don't taste that awesome and are not all that light. As for the tarp question, I do have a short list (being the gear nut I am). If I went the tarp route I'd be very tempted to get the MLD Cuben Trailstar. It's the only tarp that really catches my interest.

Doug

Edited to add:
Mark, just saw your reply. Your logic is sound. I'll give it some thought for sure.

PostedDec 27, 2014 at 11:36 pm

Mark: "Doug I've come from carrying a 55-60 lb pack and pussyfooted my way down doing what I felt safe and my advise is to jump all the way down."

I think that's great advice. Seems expensive, but buying "in between" gear only to upgrade again is much more so.

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedDec 28, 2014 at 6:56 am

Pyramid tent from any of several manufacturers. Maybe 2 pounds. Or Trailstar is same idea.

Keep the Squeeze. Hard to beat 3 ounces. If you use those poison treatments, you have to wait a while so you have to carry extra water which weighs more than you save.

Don't carry more than 16 ounces of water unless you're in desert. If you hit only one water source during the day, you can drink 16 ounces before you leave, carry 16 ounces that you drink as you go, when you get to water source drink another 16 ounces and fill up with another 16 ounces that you drink as you go the rest of the day. That's 2 quarts total which should be enough for almost any trip.

Canister stove, windscreen, and canister weighs maybe 12 ounces? Sure is convenient. It's cheap to try alcohol or solid fuel and see if the inconvenience is worth saving a few ounces.

Jake D BPL Member
PostedDec 28, 2014 at 7:40 am

+1 on the squeeze.. waiting 15+ mins for chemicals to work is something the AM folks like to sweep under the rug ;) and for only an ounce or 2 saving.

I like my Optimus Crux.. boils in 3 mins, i boiled water for dinners for 2 weeks and still didn't finish a 4oz canister. Tried a cat stove and couldn't deal with the fuel pouring, containment, wind screen etc.

I think those are small things you could keep where you have other big items to make bigger headway.

Katherine . BPL Member
PostedDec 28, 2014 at 10:58 am

"If I went the tarp route I'd be very tempted to get the MLD Cuben Trailstar. It's the only tarp that really catches my interest."

Go for it! The trailstar +inner would be sooo much lighter than the Jannu.

And yes, you can do better than Mountain House. Plenty of meals that are simple enough — and cheaper too.

PostedDec 28, 2014 at 11:07 am

"Sawyer squeeze has been incredibly slow and a huge hassle for me on the trips I've taken it on now. I badly wanted to like it, but I just can't get it to filter a usable amount of water in anything close to a reasonable amount of time."

Plus one on what Billy Ray says re poisoning water. Iodine is so vile you may ask yourself into the first day what on earth you were thinking.

I can tell you a few things about the saywers, I did a fair amount of testing on this a while back after noting the unacceptably slow flow of the sawyer squeeze mini. The mini is much slower than the stnadard size. I decided the weight difference is not worth how much more time it took me to filter water, in fact, I started finding that I was doing more water per stop to avoid the longer stops, which led me to carrying more water, which defeated the weight advantage totally. So in the future, I'm going to carry the full size squeeze with the full sized syringe on all trips where I am going to use water from nature primarily, and the mini just as a backup where most water comes from piped in sources, like in point reyes.

I think a large majority of slowdowns of squeezes comes from not bringing the syringe, the solution there is to stop thinking of the syringe as extra weight, and start thinking of it as part of the filter.

Other things to check are flow rate before the trip starts, prime it, use it a few times, with good water. Also remember, hard tap water will clog it if stored over time, so use the vinegar and hot water method now and then before storing it, and shake it pretty dry.

Note that the mini is great for inline filtering, since you can just suck the water through it, that always works fine, and if you are willing to apply compression levels on the squeeze bags high enough you can increase flow rates, but I'm not personally willing to do that, I believe that's a chief cause of bag failures, even though most people won't post that fact since they are sort of embarrassed about that.

To me, you should be getting a pretty good flow rate from the standard sized squeeze, which is a bit over 3 ounces shaken out after filtering, using a moderate pressure on the bag, If you are using the mini, it simply has smaller openings (I tried ripping out the intake tube to create a larger opening but it didn't make much difference in flow rate), and it has fewer tubules.

Don't give up on the squeeze, not having to drink poisoned water is totally worth it, and being able to stop at streams and drink your fill inline mode is something so awesome that I honestly have no idea why anyone would voluntarily skip that.

In terms of freezing the squeeze, just remember, a sock around the squeeze then in your sleeping bag, it can't freeze, unless you did, but you'd be basically dead at that point so that would not be an issue.

If I can make one suggestion, avoid the thing of trying ultralight stuff for the most part, you can get a very good light weight kit around 12-15 pounds, including everything but water/food.

Some light gear is a clear compromise, here's the stuff I found technically superior in every way to my old heavy gear:

1. sawyer squeeze – I would use this in any circumstance and wish I'd always had it.
2. alcohol stove/screen/stand / ti cook pot
3. good sleeping bag, like western mountaineering, feathered friends
4. trekking poles. Love them, wish I'd switched decades ago. Realized I would never switch to not using them, so also switched to a trekking pole supported tent after a few trips.
5. All lawson / zpacks cordage, it's all great, super light, and stronger than you would believe. Note that cordage < 1.5 mm does not hold all knots, particularly not sliding knots.
6. All stuff sacks, can be as light as you want, and always use the super thin cordarge plus tiny cord locks is all you need to hold most bags closed in your backpack. That was the first thing I swapped out, first just the cord/cord locks, then I just dumped all my old heavy stuff sacks, they do not benefit you at all, and it's an easy way to drop ounces right away. Note that good sleeping bags and tents come with ul stuff sacks already.

Stuff that is very close but not quite as good as the old heavy gear:

1. thermarest prolite pad – a bit thinner than heavier thermarest, but good enough if you are fairly light. Hated the neoair, that one you will either love or hate, to me it was the worst pad I had ever used in my life, and the first pad ever to make me actually miss my old 3/8" pad. So be aware some gear people swear by depends on subjective factors.
2. a small footprint tent, like tarptent notch, mostly because it's so small I can now always find a flat spot no matter what. For solo use, the tarptent rainbow is so huge inside that I actually ended up not using it because it felt silly big to me, so I switched to the notch. Note that the actual footprint of these tents is the inner part, not the outer, since you can put the outer over small bushes etc without squishing them.
3. Light backpack, bonus points for diy design so it is exactly what I want, minus points because the straps are so damned hard to get right, lol. At 18-20 oounces though I'm good.
4. polycryo ground sheet. Stronger than you'd believe, though I find that the hardware store version is not nearly as solid as the version gossamer gear sells, but it's good enough. One roll is probably close to a lifetime supply of it. I was very skeptical of this stuff, but it works. Never could reconcile the concept fo light gear with tyvek, which isn't water proof and is as heavy as my old coated 70d home made ground cloth.
5. 1/8" or 3/16" evazote/plastazote pads. Sit pads, under mattress pads, whatever, love these.

Gear that is just plain cool/awesome, even if not quite as durable as heavy stuff:

1. ti trowels, love my big dig, lawson now has one too.
2. ti tent stakes, never found any terrain so far where they haven't held, closest was volcanic sand/ash in 3 sisters one night on one tieout, but 2 in a v held that through a major hail storm. You'll see people talk about msr groundhogs, my suspicion is that extra holding power is needed for tarp ridgeline etc.
3. ul tea strainer I made, at a few grams, love it.

If you make 12 pounds your rough target weight, plus camera / bear canister, you'd be astounded at what you can bring along.

I also used to do 50-55 pound backpacking, though I never actually swore it off, I just kind of didn't do it anymore, then started looking at lighter gear, which is a learning curve.

The one advice I would give is to skip buying low end sleeping bags, they never are what they say they are, and in the end, you pay more because you had to dump them to get a good one, so just get a good one to start. I got both my wm bags here on gear swap, but be VERY careful buying all puffy gear here, make sure the stuff is almost not used, a few nights at most, otherwise you may regret trying to save the money with used.

PostedDec 28, 2014 at 11:15 am

The famous landscape/climbing photographer Galen Rowell often climbed or ran with only a 35 mm camera and 1-2 prime lenses. Sometimes he used a bean bag as a camera support, but usually rocks, logs, or found trash (beer cans).

If a tarp is a bit too dramatic of a change, try one of the lighter double wall tents like the BA Fly Creek or Copper Spur. I like the Copper Spur due to being mostly freestanding (nice on deep snow, quick setup), but I also enjoy using an 8×10 tarp or just a bivy bag sometimes.

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedDec 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm

Take a 1 liter soda bottle (1.3 ounces). That will put enough pressure to make Squeeze easier to use. Get a clear one so you can see if there's any stuff in it. If there's stuff that settles on the bottom, make sure it doesn't go into filter. Maybe 1 minute to filter 1 pint. After you squeeze about 1/4 of the bottle, unscrew filter and let air in.

I do 5 days and never backflush. I only filter 3 liters per day. I also boil some water for soup, oatmeal, coffee, tea, but that doesn't have to be filtered.

Make sure and backflush after each trip, and before the next trip, just to make sure no residue has precipitated onto filter pores.

Jake D BPL Member
PostedDec 28, 2014 at 7:21 pm

Maybe I use clean sources and help it with my dipping cup but I went the whole long trail (17 trail days) and only flushed mine once and was perfectly fine. I had one of the Sawyer bags leak but I was new with it and probably squeezed too hard initially. I use an Evernew bag now without thinking it is going too slow. I put the sports bottle nozzle into my Powerade bottle and roll the bag down like toothpaste, keeping steady pressure. Maybe i'll have to time it and see

Alex Wallace BPL Member
PostedDec 28, 2014 at 8:18 pm

"Well, after my last backpacking trip to Minaret Lake, this past September, I'm converted to light weight. My pack weight was inn the 50-55lb range, with water, food, and camera gear (plus dog kibble). It was so heavy that even though I saw some gorgeous scenery, I knew for a fact I would be finding it WAY more enjoyable if I wasn't so beat."

Beautiful area! One of my favorites.

How may days of food did you have? Minus consumables (food, fuel, water, etc.), what's your base weight? Even with a heavy shelter and your mentioned nominal anticipated changes, there's still some weight hiding in your pack. Speaking of, what pack did you use to schlep said 55 lbs. of stuff up to Minaret Lake (Agnew Meadows TH?)?

Don't blame your dog. There are lots of ultra/lightweight hikers that bring their dogs, so don't leave the pup at home just yet.

You've already identified your shelter as being overkill (heavy), so that's going to be an easy 3-4 lbs. lost. What about your sleeping pad? Packed clothing? First aid/repair kit? Electronic gadgets (besides camera gear)? Normally these are pretty easy targets for someone with obvious high end, yet heavy, gear.

If you're serious I think it would be best to post an honest gear list and let everyone have at it. I'm sure there will be tons of things you can simply leave out before you drop major coin on replacing gear.

Doug Smith BPL Member
PostedDec 28, 2014 at 10:37 pm

Harald, I appreciate you taking the time to write that very informative reply. I’ve read through it a couple times already to get as much out of it as I can.

To all the folks suggesting giving the Sawyer Squeeze another shot, I’m willing to give it a go. I’m obviously doing something wrong. I’ll start by doing the flush with vinegar and fresh water, and go from there, with a number of trial runs at home before my next trip.

Alex, my pack is the Kifaru “Late Season”. I’m sold on it. hahaha. I am open to advice and suggestions on every piece of gear I carry, except the pack. There isn’t an item I wouldn’t consider replacing or dropping, but when it comes to the pack, I’m simply in love with it. Actually “love” is not a strong enough emotion to describe it. Haha If it can carry 55 lbs up 2,500 vertical feet as well as it did, it will be an absolute dream to carry with half the weight (or hopefully less). I know that with a lighter pack weight the pack itself can be lighter. My infatuation with the Late Season goes beyond the mere logical; I’ve tried a LOT of packs over the years for outings of various lengths, and I have finally found pack nirvana in the Late Season. So in that one regard, you could say I haven’t given up my stubbornness. ;-)

Here is a gear list off the top of my head for what I took. I don’t have weights handy but most of the gear is well known, and weights can be approximated:

-Pack- Late Season (roughly 4ish pounds)
-Tent- Hille Jannu (7 lbs)
-BV 500 (large size bear vault)
-sleep system-Elnlightened Equipment 30* down quilt (LOVE it)
Neoair X-therm pad (I could go lighter…I have some Ridgerest pads, but the X-therm is super warm and reasonably comfortable…open to leaving it for lighter weight, however)
-Sawyer Squeeze
-3 liters of water in Nalgene bottles
-Nook e-reader (multi-purpose…I no longer carry a spare flashlight, as the Nook lights my tent well)
-Headlamp
-18 cups dry kibble (planned on a 6 day hike lol)
-12 Mountain House meals (see above)
-snack bars/ small food stuffs
-Sony A7r full frame camera, 21mm Zeiss prime and adapter, 55mm prime, tripod, filters, batteries, memory cards, etc.
-Frog Toggs UL rain jacket
-Arcteryx Bravo jacket (softshell)
-pants, longsleeve shirt, hat (worn)
-trekking poles (worn)
-fleece balaclava (extremely comfy, probably my favorite comfort item)
-small first aid kit (meds mostly)
-Glock 27 (at 1lb, 7 oz, I can go a bit lighter if I want to). Please don’t anyone make this into a gun vs no-gun thread, I’m only mentioning it because Alex asked for an “honest” list. I carry a gun for a living, and have a “duty to act”, even on vacation, if the crime is heinous enough (unfortunately I’ve had to make arrests on vacation more than once).
-Kifaru “E&E” pack and Kifaru “medium pod”. These two items strap to the outside of the pack itself, and I only needed them because my other gear was so bulky. I can drop both of these items (for a pretty significant weight savings) if I carry a smaller load. The E&E pack itself is a 1000cc pouch made of 1000 denier cordura.
-survival items; map, compass, lighter, magnesium/ flint firestarter, small Benchmade folding knife, cravat, sunblock, lip balm, toiletries, spare contact lens case, etc.
-Items I’m forgetting to list.

So I really don’t go overboard in clothing, survival items, or sleep system. Sure, they aren’t “ultralight”, but they aren’t massive either. Where I really will shed the most pounds is my shelter, food, water (I go way overboard), pet food, camera gear, spare pouches, etc. A little weight will be saved by moving from the BV500 to the much smaller BV450, since I won’t be taking as much food for myself or a pup. I believe I can drop my weight in half fairly easily. 25 lbs is quite realistic I think, for a 3 or 4 day trip. Where I will really have to do some soul-searching is if I want to go to the sub-20 lb mark.

By ditching the camera gear in exchange for a 10 oz point and shoot like the Sony RX100 III, and going to a lighter shelter, I think I would easily be halfway to my goal.

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