Best 3 season breathable backpacking pant? Cloudveil Inertia, Golite Synergy/Trinity, etc.

RailRiders Weatherpants — 13.20 oz in XL for the pleated version (including the provided nylon belt). New version with flat face (not pleated) is about an ounce heavier.

Comfortable in warm weather as well as cold; loose fit for layering; deep front pockets; zipped rear pockets; velcro adjustable cuffs; very tough nylon material w/reinforced seat/knees; lightweight; quickdrying. Near perfect, IMHO.

http://www.railriders.com/index.php

JRS

Thanks Richard, have heard of them – do they also stretch? I've also considered Beyond Fleece's Shock Pants (Schoeller Dynamic), which stretch, but they're quite pricey. Then again, if Dynamic is a good material for 3 season pants, I use them all the time.

Without any layers underneath, at what temp do you start to feel cold when active and when not moving?

How wind resistant are they?

How water resistant?

Do you know how much warmer the Winter Weatherpants are?

No stretch to the Weatherpants, but I find that the loose cut compensates just fine for lack of stretch. They don't appear to be particularly baggy, just very well designed.

JRS

EJ,
I would recommend that you take a look at Montane's Terra pants. Browsing the specs on their website would be a good first step. I have used them for 4 years now for 3 season backpacking in weather ranging from cool to very hot. They are made of Tactel nylon with Cordura reinforced knees, inside ankles(for crampons), and seat; Teflon DWR; zipper controlled mesh panels(controlled by zippers) on the outside thigh; weight of 11 oz. in size medium, and a host of other details you can check on their website. I have found them durable, highly breathable(the mesh thigh panels are a real winner), reasonably wind resistant, and water repellant but not waterproof by any means, and very quick drying. The downside is finding a Montane dealer in the USA anymore. If you buy them in the UK where they are made, the list price is 65 pounds which, with the shaky dollar translates to ~$130. Great pant, though, IMHO and experience.

Just to make wild guess as to what temp the Weatherpants would become cold: mid 30's if active (like, hiking on a maintained trail); maybe low to mid-40's if not moving. I'm really guessing about this because, before feeling cold with Weatherpants, I'll don Ibex Woolies, which are themselves comfortable over a wide temp range w/o binding or feeling bulky.

Weatherpants seem to be pretty wind resistant. Have never noticed discomfort from wind while wearing them. Haven't tested their water resistance limits since I'll add a pair of GoLite Reeds for downpours or lengthy travel thru wet underbrush. I've noticed that Weatherpants don't wet thru with brief exposure to water, and dampness on the surface of the pants dries quickly.

I've never used (or owned) Winter Weatherpants. For me, a separate base layer works well and is more flexible. Ibex Woolies for cool/moderate temps; mid or heavy for colder.

JRS

I have used these pants the last couple years and they are great with a base layer or without. They are 13 oz and $85 which is a steal in this catagory. I wore these for my entire patagonia trip and they were fine in drizzle and quite comfortable and breathable in temps up to the 80's. They are a stretch woven nylon (94%nylon/6%spandex) which is very comfortable next to skin and allows total freedom of movement. They are quick to dry (the pockets take a little longer) and don't stick to you like saran wrap as the supplex pants do. I believe this is the same material as the pants used on the arctic 1000 trek. They are not totally wind proof but I don't find this as important for pants. I find the fit to be just right. The Cloudveil Inertia pants are too tight and don't have as much stretch so I found them uncomfortable even in the store. I wouldn't get anything heavier unless you will be dealing with really cold temps while hiking and then I would look at Schoeller or Power Shield. Patagonia also has the Simple Guide Pants and Guide pants which would be good for colder temps.

This thread touches on some areas that I have had questions on: there are all kinds of layering schemes for tops, but not so much for pants. Now, I understand that tops are covering the core and generating the most perspiration, but it still seems that the bottoms could use as much attention as the tops.

On a hot summer day, the solution is simple for me– a pair of baggy light nylon shorts. When it is cold and/or rainy, I switch to pants and it is this sort of weather that I question layering schemes. I don't think the hiking clothing industry has really put the effort into this area as it has with tops.

I would think that a layering scheme would mirror the tops– various weights of base layers, an intermediate layer, and a wind shell. You see 3oz tops offered, but I haven't seen that many light bottoms. Perhaps it is because pants take more of a beating or that shorts are the obvious lightweight answer– when the weather is acceptable.

Here are some of the pants I have experimented with:

Warm weather:
REI Sahara zip-offs, Ex Officio Amphipants. Light roomy nylon pants with zip off legs, light colors.

Colder weather:

REI branded heavy Supplex pants. These aren't offered by REI any longer, but I've come across a couple used pairs and I use them for colder weather hikes. The have bellows pockets and elastic cuffs, captive belt, and zippered fly but don't open at the waist. The elastic cuffs help keep them out of the mud. And they weigh 19oz– not really ultralight stuff, particularly when putting together a layering scheme to cover a wide range of temperatures and conditions. Bombproof and very good in brush and mud. Some water repellency due to DWR treatment. Breathability is good. Can be layered with wicking polyester base layers as you would tops.

Sidebar: Montbell Stretch Gaiters are perfect for keeping pants cuffs out of the mud and mud out of your shoes.

Back to colder weather pants:
Other options: Running pants:
I have a pair of New Balance polyester running pants that are nicely windproof, breathable, some DWR, and have elastic cuffs with 9" leg zippers. This sort of pant is widely available and probably the easiest option for an ultralight layering scheme. Pair with wicking base layers for warmth as needed. As with a wind shirt, they cut convection and provide some basic water repellency. 9.0oz on my scale for XL size. I have pair of Hind Microlight of similar construction that are 9.5oz and self stow in a back pocket. Sierra Designs has offered light nylon wind pants for years and the pair I found are 7oz and even have fornt pockets and a self-stowing back pocket (no leg zippers). The nylon is a little noisier and doesn't breath as well as the polyester ones– it may be the coating too. Consider that any of these pants with a pair of silkweight wicking polyester long johns are the same weight as the heavy nylon REI pants mentioned above. The long johns offer some comfortable sleeping options too.

My running pant examples happen to be black. A lighter color would offer some sun and bug protection in warmer weather. If it was truely hot weather, a pair of light nylon running shorts would make a good option to work with the running pants. Ones with built-in briefs could just be worn under the wind pants.

Wearing wicking long johns with your rain pants is a very good cool/wet weather option. The long johns keep the cold fabric off your skin and you don't need wind protection with the rain pants. Of course, this combination isn't as breathable as the wind pants, just as it is with tops. For hiking the ocean beaches in fall/winter this is a great all-day-in-the-rain combo.

Where I need more research is the comfort range on the colder side using intermediate layers. For tops I use something like a Power Stretch long sleeve tee. It seems like that would get too warm while working hard, but might be good when camped. I've collected a few pairs of lighter 100 weight fleece that seems to be readily available and inexpensive. If you get into "expedition" weight long johns, they are just about equal to 100 weight fleece, although some are lighter and pack a little better than fleece. I have some Campmor "expedition" weight polyester long johns that are strikingly similar to Power Stretch, but no where near the expense. They weigh in at 8.5oz in XL and are excellent for sleeping too. For comparison, a pair of DuoFold 100 weight fleece pants are 9.2oz and Patagonia Capilene silkweights are 5.6oz in XL size.

I would like to see some pants that are something like the lighter windshirts with leg zips, reinforced knees and butt, good DWR, breathable, and room for layering.

Specs for the options mentioned. All are extra large (XL) size:
Pants and shorts:
Nike running shorts (with brief): 4.0oz
Sierra Designs nylon pants: 7.0oz
Marmot Precip rain pants: 8.3oz
New Balance polyester pants: 9.0oz
Hind Microlight polyester pants: 9.5oz
Ex Officio Amphipants (with brief):12.5oz
REI zip-offs: 14.5oz
REI Supplex pants: 19oz

Base layer long johns:
Patagonia Capilene silkweight: 5.6oz
Campmor Expedition weight polyester: 8.5oz
Duofold 100w fleece: 9.2oz

MontBell Stretch gaiters: 1.6oz

I am using Wild Things Gear schoeller dynamic pants (they aren't on the Wild Things website, call and ask). The fabric covers a very wild 3 season range. I wear running shorts underneath which covers warmer weather and underwear (mesh liner) needs all in one. Then I sometimes bring a pair of 3 oz windpants (homemade Liberty Ridge 1.1oz Teflon dwr from thru-hiker.com) if I expect colder weather.

I used REI Sahara's for a few years but they are a flimsy and thin and only last about 10 hikes. I have a pair of 5.11 tactical nylon pants on order which should be more durable.

By '3 season' most LW backpackers are referring to the 9 warmest months.. But I only feel the need to zip off pant legs in the 3 warmest months, so I consider my '3 season' pants to be straight-leg, and summer pants zip-off.

I just bought a pair of the new Patagonia Cold Track Light pants and while I have done enough testing yet, they could very possibly become my new 4 season pant choice. They are a thin shoeller like material that on my initial runs has proven to breath very well. At 9 oz they appear to be a very tough pant. For cooler conditions a superthin merino wool base layer should do the trick. In the winter I am thinking a pair of mid to exp weight merino tights and maybe my Houdini wind pants underneath in extreme weather to create a close to the skin micro climate (prob only needed in less than zero deg days with high winds).

I've used patagonia Cool Weather Tights for years. At 8.8 oz. pretty light. I like the black color for cooler weather and the lighter color (gray?)for warmer weather. The CWT work great under light wind pants like my Montane Featherlight pants. It's bummer they don't put a pocket
on one or both of the legs.
Paul

Patagonia Stretch Jackalope – I have 2 pairs of Stretch Jackalope from several years ago – a dark pair which I use for travel and every day and a light pair I use for hiking. They look so good you’d never know they were hiking pants, yet they are very functional. These pants are fantastic. Very durable, excellent stretch, perfect mix of wind resistance and breathability and they dry fast. About 95% Nylon 5% stretch material. Only problem is that Patagonia screwed up the fabric and the cut of the pants for 2-3 years running after I bought mine. I’m checking out the current version this week as my hiking pair is getting pretty beat up. I’m hoping Patagonia went back to what worked. Manufacturer listed weight – 13.5 oz.

Patagonia Simple Guide Pants – I wore a friend’s Guide Pants for a day a few years back – super tough and stretchy but warm and heavy (around 19 oz) and only for colder weather. However, Patagonia came out with the Simple Guide Pants at 13.5 oz., same weight as the Jackalope – I’m not sure when they first released these – these are a blend of mostly nylon, 20% poly and 8% stretch material. They are listed as the same weight as the Stretch Jackalope. I’m checking them out this week.

The Montane pants look excellent from a functional standpoint, but 1) very expensive and expensive to ship to the U.S. 2) they scream sportswear, like a lot of European hiking apparel, with colored knee patches, etc. Fashion is not my first concern, but being able to wear the pants casually into town and during travel as well as in the field is a big plus – dual use = less stuff to carry.

Patagonia Cool Weather Tights – These are excellent not-overly tight thinner power stretch tights made mostly of nylon with some poly and stretch material – I have run in them for years. While they are quite durable for tights, they would never be as durable as any of the other choices listed here, and I’m not a fan of the tights feel or look for hiking. I know I would tear mine up hiking in the seat and knees in no time. Also my black pair would heat up easily in sunny weather, and even a light colored pair would be too hot for me in warmer weather.

Schoeller Dynamic – whether from Wild Things or Beyond Fleece or REI – I think the material would work very well, but have not tried them yet. I’d love to get a custom pair from Beyond Fleece if the Patagonia pants above don’t meet my needs or fit well.

How does Schoeller Dynamic work for warmer weather?

Rail Riders Weatherpants – have heard great things about them. Would prefer stretch, though have read in this thread and heard form others that the cut allows plenty of freedom of movement.

Any DIYers out there know – how many inches in fabric would you need to sacrifice in pants length to cut a pair of pants into convertible pants with leg zippers? I would guess at least an inch or two.

I've finally had the chance to check out the Patagonia Simple Guide Pant and new Jackalope Pant, and would like to share the following observations:

Patagonia Simple Guide Pant – excellent cut, 4 way stretch material, super comfortable integrated belt, highly breathable material (nylon/poly/stretch blend). Excellent fall and spring pant as well as above treeline summer pant. I have not tried the Cloudveil Intertia pant, but I believe that this is Patagonia's answer to it and I think it's superior from what I've read and heard. The brushed backing makes them more suitable for above treeline use in summer and for fall and spring hiking. These would be too warm for summer hiking below treeline, and thus less versatile for my use (3 season). These are pants, not zipoffs. I would keep these if I could afford another fall pant. Maybe if they come on sale later.

Patagonia Stretch Jackalope – nice stretch, durable, breathable, very comfortable. Look so good you will want to wear them around town/traveling. But they make excellent 3 season hiking pants. The cut is a little slim, so you may find you have to order up a size. A bellows style pocket would make the pocket better for hiking. No women's model available. Picked up a pair for travel (knowing that it can double as hiking pants in a pinch).

Golite Journey Convertible Pants- I may have mentioned this before, but while the material is stretchy and breathable, and the women's cut is excellent (fit my wife and her friends very well) , the men's cut is all over the place – large legs, tight rise, etc. Fit like clown pants. The cut hasn't changed from last season (I think they are selling the same inventory).

I've decided to go with the Beyond Fleece Mojave Convertible Pant (based on their hot weather nylon military BDU pant) – the material is I believe is very similar to the Stretch Jackalope material (over 95% nylon with a little stretch material) – it will offer the weight of material I'm looking for with a better hiking cut and the pockets I'm looking for. And hopefully this pant will not twist around on my waist after 10 steps like my Mountain Hardwear convertible hiking pants.

I love my Jackalopes. I have ceased wearing shorts in the mountains in the summer now.

I was curious if the Simple Guide pants could be used in winter. I have the guide pants to wear but looking for a slighly lighter alternative. I had the Black Diamond Alpine pants in the Schoeller Dynamic pants for winter use and they were fine, but the cut of them was terrible, more like pantaloons.

I would like to hear about the Beyond Fleece pants when you get them.

Historically I used ex officio zip-off supplex pants. From a cost -vs- performance, I think it's hard to beat supplex zipoffs purchase someplace like STP. My supplex pants have lasted years of hard use and still look acceptable, even around town. When my current plans wear out, I will most likely return to supplex zipoffs unless some miracle fabric comes along.

From a "comfort" perspective in warm to cool temp I have been most happy with the Cloudveil Spinner Convertible pants made from Inertia Plus fabirc. On three season trip I don't take a base layer for my legs. I have found that they have a larger comfort range than supplex: the inner nape helps wick and is soft to the touch, more water resistant (but dry slightly slower), maybe a bit air permeable, has a bit of stretch. Downside is that they are expensive and not that durable. After just one season the wear was enough that I keep them just for backcountry and don't wear them around town cause they are notably "scuffed up". When active I am happy in these pants to around 70F (have worn them into the 90s F when needed protection from bugs, but I wasn't happy.) I like to wear them as shorts until the temp is below around 50F. I am comfortable down to at least 30F when active, I have been on trips where the temp was below 30F, I only had those pants, and I don't have strong memories… so I couldn't have been awful cold.

I have found that Inertia is comfortable in warmer conditions that either Dynamic or Dryskin. Unlike some of the people here, I have not been that happy with Dynamic except when I needed something extremely durable. I found that I overheated faster in Dynamic than Supplex or Inertia and I got cold as quickly. In cooler conditions I really like Dryskin. Note: seems like there are lighter and heavier versions of dryskin. My pair works well when I am active from between say 10-40F. Some, like the REI Acme pants seem to be lighter material which would most likely make them useful in slightly warmer conditions.

I've found the "5.11" brand pants (5.11.com) of nylon canvas to be great pants. They have double knees and seat and the knees have internal "pockets" for 5.11's optional closed cell neoprene knee pads, which are great for rock scrambling or Telemark skiing.

Thay DO come in a cotton canvas version so avoid ordering them by mistake. Colors are sand, olive and putty. My sand tan 5.11s show dirt easily so my next pair will be olive. I wear these pants for Mojave Desert hiking for their ability to "turn" sharp plants, of which there are are a lot here. The 5.11s are great in hot weather too.

These pants are "tactical" pants, i.e. made for police use (many private "operators" overseas use them as well) but they have great features for backpacking and are suprisingly light for the fabric thickness and tightness of the weave.

Plus…they are absolutly the toughest, fastest drying 4 season pants I've ever seen, cotton Carharts or nylon RailRiders not withstanding. And the price is very reasonable. Around $50.

Eric
P.S. Did I mention they are tough?

It's curious why so few people in the States consider breeches (knickerbockers, knee pants, capri's) for walking. They're warmer than shorts, protecting you from the majority of weather, but cooler than long pants. You don't have to worry so much about getting the lower legs wet. There is no flapping fabric to get caught on things around your ankles. And they're lighter and less bulky than full-length pants. When it gets cold or there are insects, just put on your rain or wind pants, or use rain chaps. Legs just don't get as cold as the upper body so there is no need to layer them as much. I use The North Face capris and Mammut schoeller knee pants for most most of my walking until it just gets too cold to expose my skin. I don't mind my legs getting wet as long as they don't get cold. People have been wearing breeches in cultures all around the world for a very long time for a good reason.

EJ,
"The Montane pants look excellent from a functional standpoint, but 1) very expensive and expensive to ship to the U.S. 2) they scream sportswear, like a lot of European hiking apparel, with colored knee patches, etc. Fashion is not my first concern, but being able to wear the pants casually into town and during travel as well as in the field is a big plus – dual use"
A minor point of clarification: The colored knee patches(and seat of the pants, as well) are lightweight Cordura and are there for one reason, durability, and they serve that purpose very well, especially if you do much scrambling around on rock or otherwise abuse your pants. A fashion statement they are most definitely not. I wouldn't be caught dead in them back in civilization, even if they were clean. But, yeah, they are pricey. I wouldn't buy them now unless I found them on sale.

Once upon a time, I tried using an old pair of bicycling tights for day hikes. Now that's what I use for cool season and winter (in western Washington) hiking and backpacking. If it's cold out, I add a pair of wind pants over the top and/or a light pair of long undos beneath the tights. Rain pants can replace the wind pants when it's colder or windier or wetter.

Hiking under an umbrella wearing tights on the bottom and fleece shirts on top is pure, totally breathable pleasure. No clammy fabric sticking to my skin. Stays warm, doesn't flap, dries fast. Not recommended for hard cold (which I know about, having grown up in North Dakota).

The black tights can be too hot in sunshine, but you can get them pretty cheaply sometimes. One outfit I bought from a lot is "Bike Nashbar". http://www.nashbar.com/

Looks like these are discontinued on the website. Anyone know what the new equivalent of the ExOfficio Convertible Explorer pants are?

eBay also has some super deals on these…

Edit — I may be wrong on the Teflon DWR. I mailed both Montane and DuPont, hopefully they'll clarify.

I have a pair of mammut dryskin extreme pant. These are awesome cool to cold weather pants. Material is outstanding. I wore them trail running in low 50 temps as a test and they were totally comfortable. Also comfy skinning in 20 degree snow storm. No side zips, but breath-ability is so good not an issue. Mammut quality is second to none. Downside, hard to find dryskin pants for less than $100. I also have a few pairs of duofold trekking pants. I bought several pairs for $12. You can find them for $20 pretty easily on the net, but act fast I think they stopped making them. They are super comfy w/gusseted leg and crotch. They feel like a loose fitting running tight but are much more water resistant. They won't wet out in wet foliage or light down pour. Nylon and spandex with a slightly sanded interior that while cheaply constructed compared to expensive pants, work great in a wide variety of conditions. Easy to layer over or under. These have to be the very best deal by far for a 3 season hiking pant. Check them out, and hey, if you don't love them you're only out $20.