Skitouring: New Clothing (Schoeller, Polartec, …)?

I've found the Strata quite good for ski touring, but it does have limitations which aren't quite in line with more traditional garments.

First, while the Strata does breathe well it'd have to be very cold indeed for me to wear it while skinning. A good deal below zero F, I'd reckon. Usually I'll be ascending in either just a baselayer or in baselayer plus light windshell. The Strata goes on for the descent. It's well suited to this because it adds a good deal of warmth, but still breathes, and moves moisture very well. Compared to a traditional puffy (ex Photon or Xenon) the Strata helps you be drier over the course of a long day. The downside is the significantly increased air permeability of the Strata. If you're looking at a long descent on a very cold day, or facing very strong winds on a ridgeline, you'll probably want a hard shell over the Strata to add warmth.

So a four-piece upper body system might look like:

-baselayer
-windshell
-Strata
-hard shell

A more windproof puffy layer could be substituted for the hardshell for seriously cold tours.

Thanks for your opinion David! I didn't know that the strata is so warm as it is rather lightweight.

I do it the same way, if it's too warm I usually go up in the baselayer. Sometimes I take my Houndini as a windblocker with me.

What shells are you using in your system?

Could you also think of the other way around, like:

Baselayer
Mid Layer (powerdry, powerstretch, etc for warmth)
Strata

For warmth? Or is the Strata to less for the outer layer?

How about this:

1. Baselayer
Powerdry LS/SS Shirt

2. Midlayer
http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/synthetic-fill/polartec-alpha/strata-flex-jacket.html

3. Shell
Either a Neo Shell Jacket (not sure which one, I could get one for multi use)
Or a non-waterproof one (e.g. Pertex Endurance) for Winter use only, since it isn't
really that wet too often
For example: http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/synthetic-fill/xenon/-generator-alpine-jacket.html

I wonder why Rab used a Pertex Microlight outer on the Strata Flex Jacket, if they advertise it as a mid layer.
Wouldn't Equilibrium be a better choice here in terms of breathability?

When dayhinking for me an Ibex Shaq makes the almost perfect inner (I only wish the zipper wer elonger for better venting). Over that while moving I usually wear an old Houdini.

When stopped, extra cold, or going downhill, my next layer is Patagonia nano-puff hoodie.

If I need more, any old rain jacker over the top works fine. Warmer jacket in the pack above timberline, just in case…

Throw in a buff or two, baseball hat to keep it all out of my eyes, and warm gloves, and I'm good to go for the day down to as cold as it ever gets around here.

Thanks, and have fun!

Thanks again!

Anyone else got an opinion on this?

1. Baselayer
Powerdry LS/SS Shirt

2. Midlayer
http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/synthetic-fill/polartec-alpha/strata-flex-jacket.html

3. Shell
Either a Neo Shell Jacket (not sure which one, I could get one for multi use)
Or a non-waterproof one (e.g. Pertex Endurance) for Winter use only, since it isn't
really that wet too often
For example: http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/synthetic-fill/xenon/-generator-alpine-jacket.html

Similar to your pants, I use a softshell as my jacket. I usually go with a really light baselayer, and a softshell jacket, and then throw a lightweight puffy on top when conditions get colder.

I generally start out in my baselayer and jacket. Once I warm up, I take off my jacket. When I get above treeline, or am exposed to winds, the jacket usually goes back on. If it gets really cold, I reach the summit, or am taking a longer break, I'll put my puffy on. It's a good system that doesn't require fiddling with mid-layers under jackets in order to be comfortable. It may take a while to figure out what baselayer thicknesses work best for you given the conditions.

Baselayer:
changes depending on temperature

Jacket:
Outdoor Research Ferrosi

Puffy:
Mountain Hardware Thermostatic Hoody

Pants:
Outdoor Research Cirque

Legs baselayer:
changes depending on temperature

For a baselayer, I use capilene 2, capilene 4 (starting around -10* C) or powerstretch fleece (starting around -20* C).

For those temps I would definitely want more warmth then just an alpha with shell over it. For spring ski trips, it might be enough, but I'd still want to supplement it.

I bring a UL winter down parka for emergency use. It typically stays at the bottom of my pack, but I know that if myself or a partner got hurt, the extra lb for my rab infinity would be well worth it. I will probably start bringing my 6oz down pants for the same reason.

For layering with an alpha (I've got a nano air, same concept) I'd wear a cap 4 or merino base layer hoody, a light breathable wind shirt (I like pertex equilibrium), a nano air, and a light synthetic or down jacket to put over all of it. If its snowing hard, I might add a WP/B shell layer to that. Like Dave said, the alpha may be a bit warm for hard skinning, but its a great additive layer for moderate terrain, or for moving in exposed terrain. With this system you could layer the alpha directly over your base for skinning in frigid temps, over your windshirt as a belay jacket, or under your windshirt for the down.

A simpler system would be to use a thin base layer with a vapour rise alpine as a mid layer and a puffy jacket with a weather resistant shell, like pertex endurance. The alpine is extremely versatile as an action layer. I rarely need to do any layer changes when I'm in a merino base and the rab VR alpine.

I'm fully bought into the polartech system and find it works great:

1) Power Dry High Efficiency (Ie cap 4)
2) Westcomb Tango (Alpha, better cufs then the rab)
3) Patagonia Knifeblade (PowerShield Pro…very breathable and pretty waterproof. Discontinued unfortunately)

These three garments give you a lot of options. I've only worn all 3 for downhill skiing and skinning short laps when it is *really* cold. Sometimes I'll either replace os supplement the strata with a warmer down coat for rest stops or replace the knifeblade with a windshirt.

Cap 4 and neoshell with thigh vents on the bottom.

Serge – I'm curious about your experiences. When touring, I've always been warm enough with a light synthetic puffy, a softshell, and a thick enough baselayer. This includes temps even down to -20F. My synthetic puffy is likely about as warm as an Alpha layer. However, I find that if it's cold enough to want my puffy, I don't want something that breathable. Thus, an Alpha layer wouldn't be very useful. I think an Alpha layer makes more sense on expeditions with wide ranges of temperatures, where you actually need to deal with true midlayers. Or, perhaps for women, who tend to run noticeably colder.

For day trips, especially ski touring, I've never understood the concept of the midlayer. I can always pick the right weight of baselayer, a thin windshell to trap additional warmth, and a synthetic puffy for when you get exposed to more intense cold and wind.

For emergency, I bring a blizzard bag. At 13oz, you get a 30 degree sleeping bag and a shelter, all in one. It's a TRUE emergency option as opposed to a winter-weight down jacket. It also weighs significantly less and takes up less space in the pack.

I now have the Rab Strata Flex Jacket and also bought the Rab Generator Alpine since my old Photon Jacket is falling apart.
I'm a bit surprised that the Generator Alpine is much larger than the Photon, it seems to have more loft, is a bit heavier but thus also warmer (Photon has Pertex Microlight, Generator has Pertex Endurance).
I use it as an all-around winter jacket, since the Photon was a bit too cold in winter I think the Generator will be better. Unsure about the size though.

Anyways these are my options:

1. Shell
I agree that the NeoShell is not enough and not suitable for touring.
I will now use the Generator Alpine or my old Photon as a warm shell and see how good this works.
http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/synthetic-fill/xenon/-generator-alpine-jacket.html

However, I think the Rab Infinity would also be a very good candidate:
http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/mens-clothing-down/infinity/-infinity-endurance-jacket.html

My fears are though:
– down might be a problem if it gets wet, that's why I thought the generator alpine might be better, it's Pertex Endurance, not sure if this is enough
– might be too warm when active?

2. Midlayer
Alpha:
http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/synthetic-fill/polartec-alpha/strata-flex-jacket.html
I've already tested it and I have to say it's really very breathable and feels nice
Power Stretch:
http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/mens-clothing-fleece/polartec-power-stretch/power-stretch-pull-on.html
I prefer this pull on as a skiing midlayer

I think as mentioned above, it would also be an option to just use a thicker base layer and a windshirt. However, I prefer to have thinner baselayers and use an additional midlayer, it seems more flexible to me.

3. Baselayer
Powerdry LS/SS Shirt (when active I prefer powerdry instead of merino). The Marmot shirts are really awesome.

Thanks for the suggested blizzard bag, I only knew the other quite popular rescue bags mentioned here (don't remember the name, those orange ones) but these seem much better for ski touring.