Good light late fall/winter hiking boot – Keen Growler or TNF Storm Peak? Where to find Growler?

All my keens are sized up 1/2 size from my "normal size", good fit would be important with a winter shoe.
Zappos sell the keen growler, of course you can't try them on but the shipping is free.

EJ – I bought my Keen Growlers at Zappos two years ago. They are true to size, warm, dry, and extremely comfortable. I order one size up for winter boots so that I can wear thick socks for additional insulation. They are ideal for snowshoeing because they have three snowshoe heel strap indentations and a metal ring in the front for gaiters.

This model is no longer manufactured. It has been replaced with the Keen Snoqualmie Winter. This replacement model is available at REI, Zappos, etc. It uses leather rather nylon for the outer shell and it appears to be a taller boot.

Richard, I owe you again. When I went to search for that boot I found the lighter weight true successor to the Growler – it's the Blackcomb boot.

http://www.rei.com/product/756416?vcat=REI_SEARCH

Sizing is a huge question mark for me. How much do we size up for heavier winter socks? M11.5 and W7.5 are our usual hiking shoe/boot sizes (foot size is 11 and 7 respectively). What size would be most versatile to use for both cold and very cold weather, without being too loose or two tight in either condition? I'm trying to minimize ordering multiple sizes and sending back and forth. It's not easy for us to find specialty shoes like this in local retailers.

Off topic, regarding the most efficient backpacking clothing thread you had going with clo values, in addition to the R1 Hoody, do you also use R1 pants ever? If so, what's their comfort range?

Richard, by one size up, do you mean one size up from your foot size, or one size up from your normal hiking/running shoe size (which is usually a half size up already for most people)?

EJ – The Blackcomb looks like a nice winter boot. Unlike the Growler, it doesn't seem to have the heel engineered for a snow shoe strap nor does it have a metal ring for easily un-attaching a frozen gaiter. But since it is lighter and this is BPL… enough said.

I have the old R1 pants which I do not like. They are cut loose in the legs and don't have any Lycra in them. This results in poor wicking and cold drafts. I recently purchased the new R1 pants on sale. They are cut tighter in the legs and have Lycra to create a proper base layer fit. The new R1 pants are a great compliment to the R1 Hoody. For me, this thickness of material in combination with a pants hard shell or wind pants serves me down to about 10F when doing winter sports such as skiing and snowshoeing. In my winter play area that is about as cold as it gets.

My heavy wool winter socks requred that I size up 1 size from street shoe size for the Keen Growlers.

I'm hoping that if we go a full size up from street shoe size to accommodate thicker winter socks that the boots with those winter socks won't be too hot for late fall hiking.

How much of a negative is the lack of a snowshoe heel construction? Does the Snoqualmie have a heel strap construction? We wanted to pick up light snowshoes later this winter and this would be our only snowshoe boot.

Give that we want use the boot for both late fall/winter hiking and snowshoeing, would you go for the higher Keen boots you recommended (which are surprisingly light for their size) instead of the Backcomb? They also look very well made.

I tried on the R1 pants a few years back and had the same experience with loose fit. Would you say they are equivalent to what Patagonia markets as Capilene 4? I found a good deal on them and I'm wondering how warm they will feel. Sounds like you use them as a heavy long john.

I work in an outdoors store and we sell both those boots. I would definitely recomend the Keens over the North Face. North Face shoes are often terrible. Lots of people own them at work and they have all complained about them falling apart. Mine were back on warranty in three months. Everyone loves their Keens though. I've had mine for a year and they are one of the best pairs of boots I've ever owned. Mine fit fine, but about half the people who buy them need a half size bigger if not more.

Hey Thomas,

So I've read about them too. I really appreciate you sharing your experience with the quality and sizing. I've looked at TNF winter boots 3 years running (only because there's a TNF store a few minutes from us) and have passed on them every year.

Questions:

1) If I have an 11 shoe size and typically take an 11.5 hiking boot and running shoe; and my wife has a size 7 shoe and typically takes a 7.5 hiking shoe and running shoe, and we would like to use the boots for cold late fall/winter hiking and also snowshoeing, which sizes do you recommend we take for A) wearing same thickness of hiking socks we wear 3 seasons B) wearing a thicker winter sock.

2) Which type of sock would you recommend for our uses, considering that we can use an overboot and gaiters for snowshoeing to add warmth?

3) Considering our uses, which Keen boot from the thread do you recommend, the higher or the lower model?

Thanks, we'll love getting out with these this winter. We've used our 3 season boots in the last few years on some very cold days, and had a great time except for cold feet…

EJ – I used trail runners, Gore-Tex socks, and over boots when I started out snow shoeing a few years ago. Everything seemed to work OK, but I didn't do any difficult terrain the first couple of years.

My advancement into snowshoeing steep pitches of ice, using creek bottoms as trails that were combinations of ice and running water, followed the purchase of my Keen Growlers. The Growlers work great but I don't know how critical the snowshoe specific features are like a rigid back platform, with indents for a snow shoe strap, and a metal gaiter ring on the front of the boot are. My difficult terrain trips have only been done in the Growlers and so I can’t compare.

You can still pick up Keen Growlers from the Zappos existing inventory. Zappos has an excellent return policy if the fit is not what you want. If it were me, I would try the Growlers since they are well tested for the situations you plan. Barring that option, I would probably do what you are considering and try the Backcomb. If you do purchase the Backcomb, please let us know how it fairs with snow shoes in tough terrain.

The specs on the Capilene 4 pants are 5.3 oz/yd2 versus 6.5 oz/yd2 for the R1 pants. They should fit the same because they have a similar Lycra %. The R1 pants are on sale at Backcountry.com for 20% off. I use my R1 pants only as a heavy long john.

Hi Richard,

I didn’t realize the Keen Growlers were still out there. I searched for them and somehow missed this. Only bummer for me is I have a blanket 20% discount with Onlineshoes.com and they no longer have the Growler – only the Blackcomb. How much of a difference do you think the ridges on the back of the shoe make? I notice the Blackcomb has a rough patch on the back of the shoe which may work as well as the ridges – I’m going to ask Keen.

I spoke with Keen during lunch, and it turns out the Growler is not the old shoe, but a new shoe and current with the Blackcomb. The Blackcomb is the urban fashion version of the Growler and is not meant for snowshoeing – it has a softer construction and is not meant to hold snowshoe straps and is not waterproof. The Men's Growler is widely available, but the Women's is very hard to find and Keen has none left in stock. Took me a little while, but finally found the 2 sizes my wife will need to size properly.

Thanks all for your help. Very much looking to take these babies out in the snow soon. Think snow. Think positive (last winter was a downer for us in he NE, very little snow until late in the season).

1. It's hard to say what size of boot you'd need. Keens are wierd that way. Some people are spot on whereas I've sold some that where 1.5 sizes bigger than usual. All I can say is that Keens are much wider than the average shoe. I just checked my size and I realized I'm actually half a size smaller in my Keens because I've got really wide feet. If your feet are wide, get your normal size. If your feet are narrow, you may need to size up. If you can find a store that sells any type of Keen, find your size then order that over the net. Shoes are always designed around the same foot molds so the sizing should be the same within each brand.

2. Everyone always suggests wool socks. It's really kind of personal preference. It can depend on how long you plan to go out, the temperatures you expect, your blood circulation, how sweaty your feet are, and how breathable your footware and gaiters are. I prefer a sythetic wool blend in the winter. They are almost as good as merino wool but the sythetic lasts way longer.

3. As for which shoe you should buy, again it's personal spreference. The REI site has pretty good summaries of both boots. The two biggest differences I see in the boots are the height and the torsion stability shanks in the Snoqualmies. The shanks may not matter if your snowshoes support your feet anyway (like MSR snowshoes). The height is up to you. Some people don't like mid-heights because the back rubs them the wrong way. You may want the full grain leather because it is more durable than the nylon in the Blackcombs. I'd probably go with the Snoqualime's considering they are only $5 more at REI.

Keep in mind that there is no perfect sock, boot, or anything. It's all personal preference. Get whatever you like best or do what I do, get what's on sale.

EJ-
I just bought a pair of growlers at mountaingear.com

here's the link for women's sizes. They seem to have quite a selection. Some are back-ordered.

http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/Keen/idesc/Growler+%2D+Women%27s/Store/MG/item/205064/N/676%204294967242

weird, but when you read the blurb on the Blackcomb boot, it says it's waterproof.

Donna, how was the sizing for you? 1/2 size or 1 size up from street shoe size, and do you wear thick socks with them? I ordered 1/2 size and 1 full size up for my wife and m, and we'll return whichever ones don't fit (again, with the socks we intend on using).

Went with the lower Growler (+ gaiter when needed) – tall boots can be clunky and often overkill for hiking/backpacking.

I haven't received them yet. I got an email saying they will send them Monday, so I will let you know. I bought my hiker/shoe size, 6 1/2. I never did well with larger boots. I wear Smartwool socks, single pair,(no liners) all seasons. I find that I don't need to vary the thickness of my socks. I do wear inserts…Dr Scholls sports gel which work for me.

I like the idea of having the ability to hook gaiters to the boots. And the sole is made in such a way that if one portion freezes and is useless, the other rubber between it can handle the frigid ground. Youtube guys gave a demo about it. Whether it's true, I have no idea.

Donna – something to save you a whole lot of $ – which you can of course apply to more gear : ) – make sure that mgear price-matches footprints.com – they are selling the women's Growler for $89.95 – I was able to price match with women's pairs at groundedsoles.com, which also had my men's sizes and was shipping from less than 100 miles away from us. You can also price-match for free shipping and free return shipping, which the larger .com shoe places offer (zappos, onlineshoes.com, etc.).

I never did well with sizing boots up for thicker socks, but I only tried once with a free hand-me-down pair. Just felt clunky. We ordered our hiker boot size as well one half size up from that and will try with our regular 3 season merino socks and a pair of winter socks (which we wind up rarely using except to stay warm around the house). For X country skiing and skiing we use very long merino socks that are the same thickness as our 3 season socks, to enable better control of the boot/ski. Thicker socks/bigger boots is not a bad idea if the fit comes out just right, but that's tricky, and you are also carrying more weight on your feet.

Our Growlers arrived overnight on free shipping. Now that's fast. They look extremely well made. Won't have time to really try out sizing with different socks until end of week, but will let you know what we thought then.

Thanks everyone for helping narrow the choices and find the right shoe. We got very little time outside this summer because of family circumstances and work, and we just can't wait to go cold weather hiking and showshoeing this fall/winter. One nice thing about cold weather hiking = less crowds, especially on the well traveled NE trails.

Hey thanks, EJ. I'll give them a call on the price. I did get free shipping already.

Can't wait to see how yours fit. I'll be car camping this weekend. Oh, the luxury! (chair, cooler, real food…)

I'm embarrassed to say we haven't even had a chance to size ours yet. Donna, how did you find the sizing? Trying ours on tonight.

Hope this helps anyone picking up these excellent winter boots:

My wife and I had a chance to carefully try the sizing of 2 sizes each of the Keen Growler boots, and we can tell you without a doubt, if you plan to use these for backcountry use and not just for casual urban wear, you must order at least one full size up from your street shoe size – and this is assuming you are wearing your regular 3 season liners and socks, not thick winter socks.

Like a lot of insulated boots, the Keen does not allow extra room of the insulation, which means the insulation reduces the inner volume/length. I wear a street shoe size 11 and an 11.5 in a hiking boot – I need at least a 12 (a 12.5 might be a little better for downhills, but I think the next size offered is 13, too large). My wife wears a street shoe size 7, hiking boot 7.5, and needs a women's 8 and possibly an 8.5.

We tested the boots on declines at the end of the day (midnight) right after a 1.5 hours evening hike and walking throughout the day beforehand. While standing on a decline with most of our weight, simulating a downhill hike, our toes were jammed in Keens that were the same size as our 3 season hiking boots (11.5 and 7.5). With 8 and 12 Keen's, our toes were not jammed, but were just touching. I think we'll be good with 8 and 12, though my wife will be trying out the 8.5.

I would prefer keen growler it’s more comfty and durable. I bought mine online with a low shipping fee.
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