Robic fabric source?

[Vernon M White]

I have purchased several packs from Gossamer Gear made with Robic fabric. Seems to be a good tough lightweight fabric. Would like to use it for several projects. Can't seem to find it from my usual sources or from Google searches. Anyone have a source?

[Bill Townsend]

Fairly sure that is their proprietary fabric name, if not fabric.

Closest thing I know of- http://thru-hiker.com/materials/coated.php
Thru-hiker's 140d dyneema ripstop at the bottom.

You can also get some 200d+ Ripstops for much cheaper.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Its not GG's name, its an actual fabric made from Robic Nylon fibres (a type of nylon fibre).

But so far, I haven't found anywhere to get it. Would sure be nice!

http://pi.hyosung.com/pi_eng/fabricfiber/workwear/robic.do

[Jennifer Mitol]

Doesn't ULA use Robic as well?

[Ryan Smith]

Yep, ULA and SMD use it also. To my knowledge, it's only available from the factory at their MOQs.

Ryan

[Aaron Sorensen]

You can order it form here.

http://pi.hyosung.com/pi_eng/fabricfiber/workwear/robic.do

You're not going to find it by the yard, but you can order a sample 10 or so yards.
It isn't that pricey. Maybe double of normal, (paying for shipping).

Ordering 1000+ yards will obviously be much cheaper than any other similar fabric.

Fabric is made by Mipan.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Thought I would add another post to this thread, mentioning the Robic now available on Ripstop By The Roll

https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/1-0-oz-robic-xl-ripstop-nylon

Be cool if they manage to get a coated (non breathable) fabric, could be good for MYOG packs.

[Hoosier T]

RSBTR just got 420d coated (waterproof) robic as well. Same stuff GG uses on the heavy parts of their packs. I would love to see the 1.0 robic with a PU coating. It will be so awesome for tarps and packs.

[Anonymous]

Not particularly lightweight and on the expensive side, but would be extremely tough/durable for the weight for packs:
http://www.cascadecraftworks.com/shop/x-pac-d40-dyneema-ripstop-half-yard-length-white

It would be interesting to see a similar fiber blend combo, but at much lower denier and with a thinner film bonded to it, for use for tarps, tents, etc (it would be like cuben, but higher abrasion resistance).  Robic nylon is an improvement and slightly better nylon, but still doesn’t compare to Dyneema or Spectra type fibers, which are a bit less dense, but much stronger, much more durable, and much more hydrophobic than any nylon.

[Roger Caffin]

Is Robic any different from Taslan or Supplex? (Air-textured fibres.)

Cheers

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I agree Hoosier, be good to see lighter varients. I was thinking that it makes a fair bit of sense to use say 1.0 Robic, and then line with a lighter cuben (eg .74 or 1.0 for long term use). The Robic would have pretty reasonable DWR, and keep most moisture out of a pack, and might have similar or better abrasion resistance to Hybrid Cuben. Also more versatile-Arid trips I wouldn’t bother with the liner.

The price of their Robic is quite reasonable, and selling it by the half yard. Its less than half the price of their dyneema and much cheaper than Cuben varients.

EDIT: Actually it looks like Gossamer Gear now use a light Cordura nylon for the Murmur (0.97oz/yd), with 100 Denier Robic for high wear. Other packs use 100 Denier Robic and heavier weights. Wonder why they went away from their light Robic?

That 0.97oz Cordura (6.6 Nylon) seems similar to what Sea to Summit are using on some products…I might check it out in store.

[Anonymous]

“Is Robic any different from Taslan or Supplex? (Air-textured fibres.)”

Robic is supposedly a proprietary nylon formulation that has higher tensile and tear/sheer strength than the other forms of same.  Not necessarily air textured.

As compared to nylon 6, supposedly (from ripstopbytheroll’s website), “ROBIC® fabrics are up to 50% stronger with 2.5x the tear strength.”

I bought some 1 oz/yd2 Robic fabric from the above, and it does seem to be a bit stronger in my initial tear/ripping tests as compared to 1.1 oz/yd2 nylons i have bought, but i would like to see it more thoroughly and meticulously tested (i was just doing it by hand).

I do agree with some that if the above is true, it would be nice to see some silicone coated, waterproof versions, as it would be a mild improvement.  But, i think the future of SUL fabrics, lays more in highly oriented UHMWPE fibers (Dyneema, Spectra, etc).   However, the material is not as easy to work with, which i found out first hand working on my framed pack.   It needs to be stabilized in specialized ways when woven or knitted.  Fused films (out of the same material) or blending with other fibers would help with that.

 

 

[Kyle Baker]

(Full disclosure – I’m the owner of Ripstop by the Roll)

Not applicable to packs, but there is a 7D ROBIC on the horizon. Curious what the finished weight is on the 20D Cordura nylon 6.6 they’re using.

[Sam C]

I love the 420D Robic, all 6.7 oz/yard squared of it.  SMD uses both the 420D and 210D Robic on their fusion line, to give an example.  RSBTR has the 420D and I have yet to see this or the 210D anywhere else.  This stuff is practically bomb-proof and right up there with 1000D Cordura in toughness, imo, but at just over half the weight.  For some reason, the 420D Robic sold by Rip Stop looks, and feels, kinda… vintage.  It reminds me of a material that may have been used to build seat covers for a 1970s 1/2 ton truck.  It feels kinda plastic-y yet is nowhere as slick (or smooth) as lighter weight coated fabrics.

I am currently building a pack mainly with the 420D and will post some pics and other info about it here in the near future.

[Anonymous]

Kyle, any chance that non DWR treated versions of these fabrics will be offered?  I ask because i like to apply silicone to fabrics to create a truly durable, water resistant treatment.

But it’s very hard to do, when fabrics come pretreated with a DWR.

That 1 oz Robic for example, would be great for this purpose, as it’s pretty highly air permeable.  When doing a DIY silicone treatment of fabrics, and looking to keep measurable air permeability, it really helps to start with fabrics that are more highly breathable to begin with.  The margin of error is a bit more forgiving then.

(with a tightly woven, calendared fabric, you have to get the silicone slurry and application down to a detailed science to maintain air permeability, and that’s out of my league and i will leave it to Nextec et al.).

[Adam Kilpatrick]

I’m also keen to see some non DWR ultralight fabrics. For synthetic quilts (in many situations), especially the linings, calendaring and DWR are pointless and just add weight. A non DWR version of the Membrane 0.66 would be awesome.

Kyle…this 7D robic, I’m guessing it will come out a similar weight to Membrane? Sounds like something that could potentially be good for a winshirt, assuming other properties are good.

[Kyle Baker]

(Full disclosure – I’m the owner of Ripstop by the Roll)

The weight of the 7D ROBIC is similar to the 10D membrane (~0.7 osy), but it’s rated around 1000 mm for HH and 7000 g/m2/24 hr for MVTR. So MUCH higher water resistance than just DWR coupled with moderate breathability. It’s also the most robust 7D I’ve personally tested.

I think it will work very well for UL bivies, wind jackets/shirts, and quilts. Anything where you want more water resistance than a standard DWR and are willing to trade some breathability to get it.

[Hoosier T]

Can’t wait to see that. Been wanting to make my first bivy to go with the membrane tarp I made.

[Anonymous]

Are you saying that the 7D Robic nylon is silicone coated, or achieves the moderately high HH and moderate breathability via weave/struture and traditional DWR?

Reminds me a bit of an unique bivy i made not that long ago, out of a combo of Argon silnylon, which had an inconsistent silicone coating where average HH was about 750mm, but tested as high as 2000mm in some areas.   I took my thinnest needle for sewing machine, and needle punctured it, sewed it onto some of your DWR treated and calendared 1.1 oz/yd2 polyester, and used a very breathable, non DWR 1.1 oz nylon for the “mesh” lining.

The idea is that the outer, punctured Argon silnylon would provide decent water resistance and break initial rain drop force, while the under layer of DWR polyester would further stop the rain/moisture.  Then it being sandwiched between the two layers, would protect and prolong the DWR more than normally would happen.  Meant to be combined with a small tarp, like a poncho tarp, or used for winter camping in snow trenches etc.

 

[Aaron Sorensen]

Kyle,

Any chance of either the .7 or 1.0 getting a PU coating?

[Kyle Baker]

(Full disclosure – I’m the owner of Ripstop by the Roll)

No it isn’t silicone coated. It uses a thin, specially formulated microporous PU backside coating that gives higher water resistance but also maintains moderate breathability. I wouldn’t label it as such with this level of waterproofness (1000 mm), but the technique itself is one form of WPB (WaterProof Breathable).

With this type of backside coating, we can actually tweak it to achieve around 5000 mm HH and 10,000 MVTR, which is reasonably good for a PU backside, but pales in comparison to something like an eVent laminate. For this 7D ROBIC, I wanted the lowest weight possible while still getting a nice blend of water resistance and breathability.

 

[Adam Kilpatrick]

This 7D robic sounds great! I can think of a few potential ideas for it…

1. Mitts. Completely waterproof Mitts are rarely required. If its cold enough, it will be snowing. Mitts never keep your hands 100% dry anyway, unless they are hunkered down something crazy with a ton of wide velcro/etc. If you are counting grams you don’t have Mitts built like that anyway. I wonder if a half ounce pair of rain mitts is possible here…

2. Underside fabric panel of quilt footbox

3. Rear pack pocket…lighter than most meshes or typical nanoseeum…Not quite as breathable, but could work well enough. Catch less on brush. One could still use Mesh for the bottom of the pocket for drainage and airflow.

4. Lower panel areas of inner tents used in colder conditions, where you don’t want a full mesh inner. Lower panel areas of double wall tent inners.

5. A semi-WPB vest to go over a windshirt for if you are moving very light and very fast. Just enough extra protection for some people.

There have been plenty of fabrics with similar properties of HH and Breathability in the past, but they are usually twice the weight, so not worth the compromise.

[Mario Caceres]

Kyle, very interesting.  You said “… specially formulated microporous PU backside coating”. So the front side is un-treated? (not even a DWR coating), so going back to Justin request, if I’m understanding the characteristics of this fabric correctly, it should be possible for us to do a DIY treatment with a “silicone slur” on the frontside, right?.  As he mentioned DIY silicone treatments do not fare well with DWR. In effect getting something similar to the 7D Coated Nylon Rockywoods is offering, but with a larger selection of colors and from the single source. (I like how you are expanding your product selection, so we no longer need to buy different components of our projects from several sources)

[Kyle Baker]

(Full disclosure – I’m the owner of Ripstop by the Roll)

Mario no the 7D ROBIC we’re doing will have a DWR. I’ve never tried a DIY sil treatment myself, but I do know that some folks that have done it with success on DWR treated fabrics such as Multicam Epsilon. This is the fabric that has the “super DWR” nanosphere coating by Schoeller.

[Sam Farrington]

If the Robic lives up to its claims, it would make a good 7-10D lighter replacement for 15-20D coated 6,6 Nylon. Closer to Cuben than nylon in weight, but with the advantages of a woven fabric. When a vendor offers it, I’ll buy some, send it to Richard for some tests, and of course, see what it weighs.
In the meantime, with coated 15D nylons and polyesters available at around an oz/sq/yd, that is plenty light enough for me.
What is gained by the expense of dropping .25-.5 oz/sq/yd off the fabric weight? For a 6-7 sq yd canopy, around 1-3 oz less weight. Not worth it to me to spend the money without knowing what I’ll be getting. To paraphrase Bush the younger, ‘Fool me a few times, shame on you. After that, shame on me.’

[Author]

Posts