Seek Outside LBO vs. MLD Dumid XL vs. TT Stratospire 2

[Roman Vazhnov]

All with solid inners.
Main preferences:
1)livability for 2+ (usable internal space);
2)storm worthiness (both wind and snow loading);
3)maybe allowing of using a small wood stove (with pipe).

LBO: 2), 3)
Duomid XL: allows of using double sleeping bag, may be 3). What about 1)?
TT SS2: 1) + also allows of using double sleeping bag. Don't know about 2) and 3)

So, what can you say about these options?

[David Chenault]

Roman, the LBO has room for two in a double bag if you offset the pole just a hair towards the vestibule end and sleep parallel to the short axis. No issue with head and foot space unless you're both quite tall (my wife and I are 5'8" and 5'11", and we have plenty of room). The Seek Outside two person nest is designed to work this way. It does make for slightly less than ideal door access for whomever is sleeping in the back.

We've also straped two pairs of trekking poles together, creating two 6+ foot poles, and run a big inverted V in the LBO so we can sleep next to each other longways. I've not had that rig out in nasty weather, where the longer poles might make me nervous.

[Paul McLaughlin]

Rankings on your preferences, from best to worst:
Livable space: SS2,Duo XL, LBO
Storm worthiness: Duo, SS2, LBO
Wood stove:Duo, LBO; wouldn't do it in an SS2. A wood stove is really only for floorless shelters IMHO, so this would be something I'd only do without the inners on all of these shelters.

That's my simple answer. but really I'd look at it as more complex. For instance, an SS2 is going to be pretty storm worthy once set up solid, but takes more work to get it that way than a Duo XL. And so on and so forth.

[Roman Vazhnov]

Why do you think that LBO is not (or is less) storm worthy?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I use a wood stove in my SS2. I made a silnylon floor that clips inside instead of the inner with a cutout for the stove area. Sleepers sleep in a V shape sorta parallel to the ridgeline. There's not a ton of room but it's entirely reasonable. I use a TiGoat 12" cylinder stove.

Space is great in the SS2. Lots of floor space, head space and vestibule space for 2 occupants. Storm worthiness is marginal though compared to the other shelters. There's simply a lot of area to catch snow and wind gusts, plus it's a more complicated shape so you're doing a lot of staking.

[Roman Vazhnov]

Big thanks, Dan, was waiting your input. Do you have a picture of your setup with stove?

I wonder is it possible to use any of these tents with the inner for two people (may be a smaller inner) and the stove in the vestibule? Or it is a stupid idea?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

This is the best picture I've got of the hot SS2. It'd be pretty tough to fit a proper inner inside the tent along with a wood stove. You could use the original inner and put the stove in the vestibule area. It would be a tight fit and I suspect you'd be less warm because the mesh would restrict the airflow a bit.

Note the far hiking pole is angled so the stove can sit in the middle, and then the stove pipe is angled so it exits further from the peak.

[BPLwiia]

Dan – Very clever. How is the pipe exiting the SS2? Is there a cutout in the fly material that was made for it?

[David Chenault]

Paul, I'm curious about your experience with these three. I've never used a Stratospire, but based on my experience with other two pole mids would bet a fair amount that the LBO will wipe the floor with it in every weatherproofing metric. I'd expect similar but far less drastic performance differences between the LBO and the Duo XL (with that big flat, wind catching back panel). The LBO is also ten inches wider and longer than the Duo with a similar height, so your living space statement seems peculiar.

[David Ure]

Nice job, Dan.

Dave, you made a comment that the LBO and DoMid would be more weatherproof than the SS2. Can you explain why? With the dual pole set up and end struts, with the ability to pitch the SS2 to the ground, I would suspect it would do very well in inclement weather. Given that it is a modified Mid design (offset).

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

wiiawiwb: I sewed on a "stove jack" which is a patch of heat proof material with a hole for the pipe, and then a flap that covers the hole when the pipe isn't in place.

[David Chenault]

The Shangrila 2 is the two pole design I have the most experience in during bad weather. I realize the struts and asymmetry of the SS2 might make it a poor comparison.

The steep ridge line of the SL2 shed snow well so long as it wasn't accompanied by strong wind, and the vaguely hexagonal design blunted the line of the long side panels which helped broadside wind resistance quite a bit (though you had to put a lot of tension on that one stake). The problem came during severe (30+ mph) and sustained winds, especially when accompanied by snow or heavier rain. Whichever end was into the wind would get tensioned heavily, eventually to the extent that the other pole would become a little less tensioned and want to move a little during gusts. On one windy, snowy night I had two failures where the lee pole fell over, with the other pole obviously following it shortly thereafter. After the first collapse I tried to retension everything heavily, but that only prolonged a repeat collapse.

These are pretty rare conditions, and realistically not a big concern for most, but that night was long and put me off two pole designs.

Continued use of the LBO over the last year has given me a great deal of faith in tipi-like designs to shed wind in a truly impressive fashion. The neutral pitch of the LBO is four sided, but it's easy to use all the bottom guy points to pull everything out into what amounts to a rough ellipse which gives wind very little to grab. This kind of design is not nearly as easy to pitch as a square or rectangular footprint, but offers significant advantages in really bad weather.

The center pole in a traditional mid or tipi will reduce the functional space for a lot of people, but it's by far the lightest way to achieve four season performance. The only thing comparable in my experience is a mountaineering wedge or tunnel tent, where you're looking at twice the weight for much less space, or comparable space for 3-4 times the weight.

I know for other correspondence that Roman is looking for a proper winter shelter, so these little details seem relevant.

[Roman Vazhnov]

Thank you, Dave! LBO looks very attractive.

One more detail:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKshWTzPhBI
Flapping of the fabric (over the zippers) in the wind is a little annoying.

[David Chenault]

More tension on the lineloc'd guypoint sewn into the top of the flaps will solve that entirely (and add extra ridgeline support).

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

It should be noted, that particular user called me after his Kodiak storm. I guess, he had been on Kodiak in storms the past two years and both times ended up with out a tent due to storm damage. He said he was mostly tent bound for 72 HRS on Kodiak and was very pleased as the storm was worse than the ones that had rendered his other tents not effective. It should be noted, he was using the older 2 part vestibule, and the three is roomier and performs better (more tipi like)

carry on.

[Andy F]

Nice hot tent setup Dan! Thanks for posting the photos. I'm thinking of doing something similar with a Scarp 2.

[Roman Vazhnov]

Thanks! Very useful information from Kevin and David.

P.s. Although not in the subject, some tunnel tents do look rather interesting.

For example Helsport Rondane Superlight 3 Camp

3 places,58 oz (1650 grams) minimum weight, separate vestibule (3 poles), aerodynamic shape, solid inner.

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