winter mitt layers

I wouldn't trust down for mitts, unless maybe for sleeping only. For moving around, maybe a couple layers of thick fleece or boiled wool. Check this thread out:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=95305&skip_to_post=826323#826323

Gloves can be a hassle in the winter when you have to hike all day in a rainstorm at 35F, or pack up a frozen wet tent in the morning and still try to keep your gloves dry. Several minutes with fleece liners and a wet tent and your gloves are soaked for the duration. OR you just pack up in bare hands and then start moving out of camp in dry gloves.

I have never tried the eVent shells which sounds like a good idea and I need to get a pair. I do bring high end down mittens for winter backpacking and they are waterproof and nice. Mt Hardwear Nilas mittens. My buddy Patman turned me onto them last winter and I went ahead and bought a pair. Very light, very warm, very water resistant.

Patman showing off his new Nilas mittens.

So I go ahead and buy a pair and they are now part of my standard winter load.

you're on the right track- a very light glove for fine work, a mid weight fleece mitten and a mitt shell- gives you several possible combinations, all three for the coldest temps

I use Smartwool liner gloves, PL 400 mitts and eVENT over mitts- they work great solo or in combnation; I use the same liners as my "summer" gloves and my eVENT over mitts as rain mitts- one of the best 1 oz investments you'll make :)

But you didn't say for what conditions/temps or what activities…

some general observations:

*Mittens are warmer than gloves.
*It is important that hand ware not be tight… or even snug as that will limit blood supply.
*If you are going to be gripping something… like a ski pole, etc., it is important to have something the flexes easily… if there is resistance from the materials gripping will tire your hands over the hours.
*had ware get wet easily so unless you are in arctic conditions, avoid down… go with synthetic/fleece
*like socks it is good to have one pair to hike in/make and break camp in… and a dry pair for when those get wet.
*it's a good time of year to look in the ski glove/mitten sections or outdoor stores for a good selection…

Billy

I use:

OR PL150 liners
black Rock fold back mitts
OR Mt Baker Shells

With that combo I guarantee you will never have cold hands and you're dexterity will be terrific with the fold back mitts. I rarely use the shells. The foldback mitts have a good DWR coating and are solid unless you're in heavy precipitation.

I made my own winter mitts. The outer shell is cuben fiber, made from remnants. Then for the insulation layer, I made thin mitts and thick mitts, so I can use the thin ones for semi-cold weather or the thick ones for cold weather. All of that is made from ordinary inexpensive polyester fleece. It's easy to sew. Or, I could slip in some commercial thin glove liners.

–B.G.–

I wouldn't go for down either for active use. Especially under a shell mitt they can get wet quite quick when active. If in camp then great of course.

I get very cold hands when stopping as well.

My layers, when active:

-Thin liner glove or thin leather climbing glove (I like the Rab M4's because of their incredible dexterity).
-OR PL 400. These are really warm double layer (100+300) fleece.
-OR GTX shell.

Lost the shells in the Mont Blanc somewhere (not on the mountain, in the refugio or on the way down). Replaced them with Black Diamond Soloist Lobsters.

The BD Soloist Lobsters also come in mitts, but I like the lobster design because it is a bit easier to handle an ice axe or trekking poles. I can always stick my index finger in the remaining finger section if I get too cold. They come with their own Primaloft mid layer, so I alternate those with the OR PL 400 gloves while I dry the other out if necessary.

For emergencies / longer breaks:
More as an extra / security layer for deep winter (-10/-20˚C) I bought Rab Endurance Down Mitts. These are stupid warm and you can stuff the down more or less to the hands or cuffs (like you would with a sleeping bag).

I bring some chemical heat patches just in case.

I'm a huge fan of the BPL VBL mitts, made by RBH. They were a critical part of my glove system on my winter Michigan trip – they go with me on every winter trip.

I was wondering this same issue. My idea for layers are as follows:

1.Metamorph-Gloves (As liner Gloves)
http://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/metamorph-gloves.html

2.Insulated Mittens from Enlightened Equipment
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/insulated-mittens/

3.eVENT Rain Mitts
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=51

Would this get me down to 0f and be comfortable standing around camp up to 32f?
Currently I only have the Metaporph mittens, but I plan on getting the others probably for next winter.

sub zero glove system

"I'm a huge fan of the BPL VBL mitts, made by RBH. They were a critical part of my glove system on my winter Michigan trip – they go with me on every winter trip."

Have to agree on the RBH Designs VBL mitts. When used with a simple liner glove, I haven't found conditions it can't handle. I also have their heavier weight VBL mitts, but I haven't needed to ever switch to them on a trip. Now they stay, unused, on the gear shelf. The lighter version is remarkable efficient.

No real need to pay for expensive VBL gloves or mitts. Thicker (9 mil +) nitrile gloves are tough, durable, and VBL in nature and pretty cheap, and it's pretty easy to make mitts from silnylon and then add extra silicone dots on the outside for grip if need be.

Bob, it's cool that you repurposed the left over cuben, but especially if you are going to try to grip anything, cuben fiber is probably one of the worst materials you could use as a mitt shell–low abrasion resistance.

Rocco- that combo would more than cover your desired temps, I prefer fleece mitts as they dry quicker and still insulate when damp- down or syn mitts/gloves need to stay dry, sometimes tough to do in the winter; if I was looking at sub 0 temps then I would probably go the route of insulated mitts, otherwise fleece/wool mitts are more than warm enough. I usually stay home when the temps dip below 0 :)

Mike

I currently use a merino glove liner but I'm thinking of switching to something made from Polartec Power Stretch. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Okay boys, I just took the plunge and ordered a pair of eVent shell mitts from Mt Laurel Designs to keep my fleece liner gloves dry as I hike in a winter rain and do camp chores in a sleet storm.

Now my current winter system is thus:
** North Face liner gloves.
** eVent shell.
** Nilas down mittens.

Like socks, I always take two types of gloves on every trip as one will invariably get soaked. But maybe not now!

"Bob, it's cool that you repurposed the left over cuben, but especially if you are going to try to grip anything, cuben fiber is probably one of the worst materials you could use as a mitt shell–low abrasion resistance."

Actually, they are not cool at all. They are warm. If I needed to grip anything, I would use work gloves. The cuben fiber shell was there purely as a rain shell or maybe for snow.

–B.G.–

I think you are on the right track, though I would get M/90 Swedish surplus shell mitts (they come with a 70% wool liner which I would toss). For the insulation layer I would get the PL400s for cold days and Ortovox/Heratex boiled wool Dachstein mitts for the supercold days.

I would also get some nitrile gloves to use as VBLs if needed. My hands sweat a lot so this is useful for me.

Kentz,

You are OK with your choice of layers. Just seam seal your shell mitts.

You could take a light pair of neoprene "duck hunter's" gloves for wet/cold conditions where dexterity is important. Neoprene is a closed cell material that is quite warm for the thickness.

BTW I use thin neoprene diver's sox over thin poly sock liners as a Vapor Barrier Liner to keep sweat from ruining my boot insulation. With those sox you don't need a regular insulating sock. They are warmer ALL DAY than any knit of fleece sock setup I've ever found.

A link to the thermal conductivity levels of different rubbers. The lower the number, the better (less conductive of heat energy it is).

http://www.electronics-cooling.com/2001/11/the-thermal-conductivity-of-rubbers-elastomers/

Note that butyl rubber is exceptionally good at .09. Hard to find butyl rubber gloves that aren't really thick though.

Doug, do you mean these: http://www.rbhdesigns.com/product/37/fleece-vaprthrmsup-and-sup-mitt-liners.htm

My current system:

-Outer Shell Mitt – MEC Cloudraker Mitts, waterproof/breathable. I don't have the weight on hand but very light and a fantastic value when on sale. Probably more durable and less breathable than MLD eVent mitts but much cheaper.

-Midweight fleece insulation mitts – Polartec Thermal Pro midweight mitts

-Nitrile gloves as poor man's VBL for very cold conditions (you can buy slightly more durable ones rather than the typical very thin ones that come in large multipacks)

-Powerstretch or merino liner glove (not mitt) for dexterity

Bring at least 2 pairs of liners/midlayer fleece mitts so you can dry one pair inside your jacket or sleeping bag against your body while wearing the other pair.

Hi E J,

You linked to the liners, I have gloves but no additional liners, more like this: http://www.rbhdesigns.com/product/44/ultralight-mitt.htm

Back when BPL had a store, they used to sell BPL branded VBL mitts, made by RBH. I got an astonishingly killer deal on a couple of pair when the store liquidated its stock.

I also use nitrile gloves – for both backpacking and cycling in the winter.

I actually had wet gloves dry over time while wearing them when I put on the BPL mitts.