Frost Line vs Mirage

Two different pieces really Babak.

Mirage in town is like driving your BV206 to the liquor store. I suppose you could, but why.

In my experience, my gear tends to get the most messed up when I'm using it around town- mostly because I'm not taking the thought to baby it.

When in the backcountry I'm almost always putting a shell on to protect my down- hence why I was leaning towards the frost line.

PS- sorry about the name change, I'm not at all a rapper- just currently interviewing for some govt jobs and this forum is actually how one of my jobs was able to learn about my life (I use different names on social media).

I had to google BV206….. that's one hell of a snowcat…

That makes sense Trill Daddy,

Perhaps I'm the only one who's unimpressed by the Frost Line. Compared with the Mirage and the Permafrost that I own, I feel like MB built this down to a price point. That being said, I don't like to use my Mirage around town because the 7d outer feels more fragile than it probably is. I'm much more comfortable with a synthetic piece in town.

Dan Durston has some pretty good comparison posts(if u can find them). I think the moral of the story is:

-they will be similar in warmth
-the fit for each is pretty different
-Frostline gets you more features
-Mirage is much lighter
-Frostline is much cheaper

I own a Frostline and really like it. A large fits perfectly and it's plenty warm for my uses. Only con for me is the zipper is a little snaggy.

" I feel like MB built this down to a price point"….I guess I can see what you are saying. I looked at it more as they wanted to hit a different market segment. 30d/20d nylon and 800fp is not the pinnacle of materials now days. Still pretty good though.

Ryan

I usually go with whatever is most durable.

My issue is that I have to commute long distances for work and often try and pack things with me that I will need for several days at a time.

I usually go with synthetics for their knock around flavor, but in the Rockies, there isn't anything quite as nice as down.

Is the Mirage actually as warm as the Frost line?

I like to keep it separate. Have something I can beat up around town, bought for the purpose, or an older piece that I used extensively for hiking but replaced. At least for my thick winter puffy that is more expensive I like to use it when I'm in the mountains. Not that I'm babying it, it's meant to be used after all, but I'm just using a lighter piece or used piece to beat up/not care about.

For climbing/a light synth piece that I wear when active I might reverse that. I use an older Atom LT or older fleece to not worry about the cuffs etc when jamming my hands somewhere (feed to the rock so to say)..

There's a lot of Frost Line/Mirage discussion in this thread:

https://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=97078

Per the specs, the jackets should be similar in warmth. The frost line has 12% more cubic inches of down (6.7 x 800 vs 5.3 x 900) but it's also a little bigger cut so it's maybe 5% warmer on paper.

Generally I like paying more for a superior product, so naturally I lean towards the Mirage, but my winter parkas seen a lot of use/wear and that 7D fabric wouldn't look to good after a couple years. If Montbell made a 15oz Mirage with a 30D shell I'd be all over that, but since they don't I'm okay with carrying a few more ounces and saving $110 or so.

I like how Montbell cut 5oz of features off the Frost Line for 2014. Hopefully they take this a step further for next year, as they could trim another 2oz or so and provide a darn nice winter jacket @ 17.5oz and $200 without switching to materials that jack up the price (900FP down, 7D fabric).

Has anyone with a Mirage seen their's leak down?

Maybe one or two plumes over the last year, nothing worse than any other Parka I have.

By itself, what is the limit of the Mirage, Stephen?

I have used my Mirage down to about 20 with only a mid weight base layer. It is fairly comfortable, but just sitting around for hours I would probably be cold. I would need a thicker base, a wool sweater, or get moving, or climb in my bag.

This winter, I will be using my Mirage, with a RAB Neutrino plus as a outer jacket at colder temps.

Richard Nisley called it thermoneutral @ 22°F (clo = 3.51), which closely matches my own experience – kept me comfortable doing minor camp chores (cooking) in low 20s to high teens with a Neoshell rain anorak on top.

Trill Daddy,

By itself it's good for me to about 20f.

I used a r1 Hoody as a base layer with just the Mirage in upper 20s, but with a ton of wind, 20mph constant with up to 40mph gusts. I wasn't freezing cold, but I wasn't warm either. I had mid weight Smart Wool Long underwear on as well. In the jacket's defense, I think because my hands where cold it made my whole body cold.

I've heard the Mirage is somewhat porous to wind. Can anyone confirm this?

The JP Montbell offerings are pretty neat-

Their Alpine Down Jacket is essentially a mirage with 20D fabric, weights $14.7 oz and uses 800 fill (is there diff between US and JP down rating?)

Here is a photo:

They have a "Superior Down Jacket" which uses 10 denier, 800 fill down and weighs ~8 oz :

Does anyone have any experience with either of these?

Offerings differ between JP and US Montbell. JP will not give the amount of down fill so you often don't know if it is the same or not. Sometimes there are US models in the JP store and you can try to compare the two, but it is not always clear to be honest, because of different zippers or fabric.