Not impressed with Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer down hoody. Alternatives?

I really like my Montbell EX Light Anorak, it does not have DWR down though.

Feathered Friends Hooded Daybreak. Does not have the hydrophobic down, but does have a good dwr shell made from Schoeller Nanosphere.

I recent received a MB Ex Light Anorak, and my experience differed from Steven's. Was horribly disappointed with the fill dispersion and fill overall. Compared to my old Stoic/Backcountry.com Hadron Anorak that is supposed to have 2.3oz of 850FP…I found it VERY hard to believe that MB Ex Light had anywhere near 2.2oz of 900FP. What was even more disappointing was the poor hood fit, the fact that the hood pretty much had NO fill in it at all (virtually just two layers of nylon) and that the inside side of the kangaroo pocket was just a layer of nylon. I even found 3-4 sections that had maybe 6-7 plumes of down in them. First Montbell product I've had a bad experience with. I can say hands down that the Backcountry.com Hadron Anorak bought in the correct size has an excellent fitting hood that has twice the fill height of a BlackRock Gear hat in the hood and at LEAST 25% more loft height than even the most filled baffled section of the MB Ex Light Anorak. No doubt the Hadron Anorack is warmer jacket and better build quality.

This is my opinion. YMMV. I own other Montbell jackets that I love, but I found it had to believe that MB would even release such a jacket with their name on it. It may have something to do with what factory is producing them (some in China, some in Vietnam)…but still…where's the QA?

I believe my size small Stoic/Backcountry.com Hadron Anorak weighs in at 7.2oz with its Pertex Quantum shell.

HTH

KJ

So you haven't used it but it isn't warm?

"IMO it seems wrong that mountain hardwear is promoting this jacket as cutting edge and retailing for $350, when a $70 jacket from a fashion company with less and lower quality down beats it. "

So given your testing procedures, how does it get beaten?

I was blown away at how warm the Ghost was down to 3C. More to warmth than just down fill.

That a shame about the Ex Light Kenneth, did you get a refund?

Stephen

"Overall, the MH jacket had less loft than my roommates golite selkirk, and even less loft than my uniqlo UL parka. When testing for warmth, the Uniqlo UL parka is overall warmer hands down, but the hood on the MH wins by a long shot."

I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Unless MH is lying about the FP of the down being used I'm not sure how this is possible. Do you mean the amount of fill? The Golite is 800fp if I remember correctly(Unless it was changed since I owned one)and I have doubts Uniqlo is breaking 800 either.

In regards to MH I always felt they were fairly accurate with product descriptions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the Ghost Whisperer either, but the reasons aren't related to the quality of the down. I actually couldn't stand the hood design and decided to stick with my Montbell UL parka.

I'm no expert though, perhaps my understanding of down and the terminology which goes along with it is a bit off.

Frye

When I tried the MH GH on in REI, it was 2-3 times the warmth of patagonia, northface light jackets or even my MH zonal.

If they sent out a bad batch that might explain the sudden price drop. If you got it from REI online, I'd take it to the store and maybe swap with a another GH with good down distribution.

Personally, I unfortunately need a jacket with ripstop for wooden environments.

Something to consider: http://www.eddiebauer.com/product/microtherm-reg–stormdown-trade–hooded-jacket/38832206/_/A-ebSku_0880857100000070__38832206_catalog10002_en__US?showProducts=&backToCat=Jackets&previousPage=GNAV&tab=men&dcolor=907

I don't have that one because I already have a Montbell UL hooded jacket for a similar temperature range. I don't know how much the EB weighs.

However, I did get this one for lower temperatures:

http://www.eddiebauer.com/product/downlight-reg–stormdown-trade–hooded-jacket/38832184/_/A-ebSku_0880773100000050__38832184_catalog10002_en__US?showProducts=&backToCat=Jackets&previousPage=GNAV&tab=men&dcolor=175

It weighs about 16 oz, but I'm pretty confident it'll work well to -10F or perhaps beyond. I normally wear a medium but got it in large to fit easily over all other layers as a winter parka should. It doesn't have any drawcords (waist or hood) and the hood is too small for a climbing helmet, but the shell is pretty water resistant (I walked in the rain with it a bit just for the heck of it) and the down is Downtek treated. Whether this works as advertised remains to be seen. Hard to find objective reviews on this since it's fairly new.

"I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Unless MH is lying about the FP of the down being used I'm not sure how this is possible. Do you mean the amount of fill? The Golite is 800fp if I remember correctly(Unless it was changed since I owned one)and I have doubts Uniqlo is breaking 800 either. "

I don't think they are lying about the specs on the amount of fill or the FP. The overall quality of the MH seems to be good. To me the problem seems to lie in down distribution as well as the baffle design. I notice that many of the baffles that have poor loft are seem to be stitched through too tightly, theres no room in the baffle for the down to expand. Baffle height in the back is ~ twice as high as in the chest and belly area. Is this the normal way the MH gw is put together? Perhaps I got one from a bad batch, that would explain why my initial impressions are not up to par with the general consensus. All in all, the average loft height of my $70 jacket is higher than the ghost whisperer, and the ghost whisperer has more down fill and a better fill power. Does not add up.

As far as my warmth testing, I have not taken any kind of scientific approach, and my conclusion is only based on what i can gather from my senses, which I know can be very flawed or biased, but the uniqlo down jacket gives me more immediate warmth. I feel like I'm in a bubble of warm air, and the ghost whisperer doesn't seem to be giving me quite as much warmth, which would make sense since the loft height is less. I'm only in a cotton tshirt in my yard at 47 degree F.

Maybe I am giving up too soon, and will exchange to see if perhaps I just got unlucky with a jacket that was stuffed poorly and has baffles stitched too tightly.

I'd return it, sounds like a fill issue. I tried the jacket for a bit and didn't notice that particular problem.

Really I'd return it based purely on its stupid @#% hood. :D

Frye

Sounds like your uniqlo is decently warm for the weight. You could consider just using that on warmer trips and investing in a nice light parka like a montbell mirage for a few oz mor & a lot more warmth.

Two sub 10 oz jackets that come to mind which would outperform your uniqlo, but dont have dwr are down, are the wm flash jacket and arc teryx cerium hoody. Both are expensive though & maybe not worth the performance over your uniqlo.

I like my mb anorak quite a bit, but it might be that my expectations for a 6.2 oz hooded jacket with pockets and drawcords isnt too high. It could use a little more down, but i think its warm enough for a lot of trips I do.

In the process… Campsaver was great about the return. Even if my jacket was just a fluke…I still don't see it having any possibility being as warm as the BC Hadron Anorak with the loft height of even the most filled box sections of the MB Ex Light I got. Not trying to bash MBs product, but where they cut corners to save weight on the kangaroo pocket in turn makes for a big "hole" in the jacket…if you will. Silly considering they used a zipper and then didn't insulate the back side of the pocket. The BC Hadron Anorack has snaps for the 1/4 closure and down on both sides of the kangaroo pocket. Whoever designed the anorak for Backcountry.com was a smart designer.

Stephen, did the Neoair crinkly-ness of the Ex Light Anorak subside after some use? I was surprised how noisey the 7D was. I don't know if it had to do with some DWR coating that was on the material or the material itself.

KJ

Serge, you make a good point on getting something warmer like the mirage. Perhaps My expectations in warmth for a ~2.5 ounce fill jacket is just high. The uniqlo was my first down puffy and I had a patagonia nano puff pullover before that, which has now lost most of its loft after 5 years of constant use. The uniqlo was significantly warmer than the synthetic nano puff, So i figured a jacket with higher rated down, and designed specifically for the outdoors would be much warmer than the uniqlo.

Thanks for the suggestions on the hadron anorak, have never seen it before. I really like the design with the 1/4 button snaps. looks siimilar to the nano puff pullover, which was a great jacket while it lasted. I also like the more box cut baffle design, seems like it would allow the down to loft more fully.

Hi Kenneth,

Campsaver are great to deal with it.

To be honset I have not noticed any crinkleyness from it, but now you say that I will check it out later.

I have a Mirage and it absolutely rocks :-)

I too find the Mhw GH somewhat overhyped. I don't think it is any warmer than the Patagonia UL and certainly not warmer than two Cerium LT Hoody, which I think is the warmest in the class

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com

Rather than guess, these guys actually test and wouldn't agree with you (they tested the jackets you mentioned). Might be worth a look.

I find Outdoor Gear Lab to be one of the most subjective tests anywhere online- look at the jackets they test, observe the stats and then compare that with their evaluation of the garments.

They don't seem to add up.

as ive said on the montbell frostline thread getting a jacket that fits you properly and fairly snugly with no dead air gaps is just as important as 900+ fill power if not more so … and possibly just as important as a bit of difference in the amount of down used

for down sweaters anyways, belay jackets you might need the room under

also non-DWR 900+ fill down aint 900 fill in real world humidity conditions especially in coastal damp areas … ~700 fill down maintains its loft better due to the higher feather ratio … its one of the reasons RAB used lower fill power down on certain lower body products which get damp easier

ive got "good quality" down products (westcomb), mid line (EB FA, montbell) and others

honestly, providing it fits YOU, many of these 600-700 fill store brands are quite good and the real world difference is marginal … some even use 700-800 fill down and with a bit higher denier shell will probably last longer to boot

my advice to folks is not to get blinded by the down fill numbers or saving a few grams … but to find something that FITS and, should you use it all the time, is a bit more durable

the lifespan of a UL daily used down jacket is a few years, these arent your old thick down shell and 600 fill jackets that last forever … doesnt matter what the brand, even the dead bird has coreloft in it where we recently have a thread where the service rep said not to greatly compress it

;)

as explained by eric " a jacket that fits you properly and fairly snugly with no dead air gaps is just as important as 900+ fill power if not more so ", so true. and so also explained be C. Fletcher 40 years ago.

if a garment does not fit right, it's mostly a pump to move cold air in and out.
a lot of down's warmth comes from the simple mechanical act of not leaving much space for the cold to be in.

the pumping effects greatly affect the function, it introduces a numerous variables into testing. so many that variables that things like fill-power and clo are rendered academic (a word meaning "useless", in the real world).

i look at some of the quantitative analysis on bpl as some young man trying to spec design his next girlfriend. it don't work that way. at any rate, it don't work very well. it may be a nice exercise in theory, but similar to computer weather prediction models, there are excessive unknown variables of significant scale, and the results are not credible.

many folks might be better served with the " … just send it back, because the hood badly psucks" mentality.

cheers,
v.

Tightening a belt around a jacket at the waist does wonders for warmth, whether loose or normal fit.

If you're willing to look at slightly heavier down jackets, I've been very happy with my Eddie Bauer / First Ascent Downlight Jacket. The fact that they make it in Tall sizes really sealed the deal for me since I'm a tall lanky dude. For the price (almost perpetually 30+% off), it's a great deal. I'm not sure I'd pay retail for one, though.
My Large Tall weighs 13 oz, and is very warm and comfy for the weight.

On the other hand, I was less than impressed with their MicroTherm down jacket. Heavier and much less warm than the Downlight, rough detailing, no hem elastic or drawcord, and stiff, less than-comfortable material. A pretty poor design overall IMO.

If you can find one on sale, the Arc'Teryx Cerium looks downright buttery! Or, if you're willing to consider synthetic insulation – I scored a deal on their Nuclei Hoody a couple months back & am extremely pleased with the jacket. Very warm, very comfortable, exceptionally well designed, and my XL weighs 11 oz. That's for 80g of Coreloft in the body and 60g in the sleeves & hood.

As stated previously, fit is pretty critical on a piece like this.

Of all the down jackets I've owned, (including Patagonia UL Hoodie, MH GW, OR Transcendant, WW Flash XR, and SD Gnar), my favorite is unquestionably the Backcointry/Stoic Hadron Anorak. It's not quite as stylish as the Patagonia or MW, but is far more funtional – lofts well, is very light, and has many great design features (snap closure, folds into own pocket, great hood fit, insulated kangaroo pocket). And cheaper than most competitors. For really cold trips, I'd want a Montbell Mirage or similar, but the Hadron is perfect for all my shoulder season adventures.

John how do you like the snaps? I have the Hadron that I just got but am selling for a few reasons (closet too full) but the snaps were a deterrent from me. How do they work? How do you like the nonadjustable hood?