Need Help! Calories for winter ascent of 12K+ peak

What is your expected time – ~8 hours?
8 x 300 = 2400. You'll start with about 1500 "in the bank", so 1400 additional is reasonable.

Even so, it's a day trip – doubling up on food won't be much of a weight gain. Just record what you eat so the next trip is more efficient. (And a deep snow "winter" trip could warrant "overnight food" in any case.)

What are the expected temperatures?
Will you be able to eat "gloves off"? Even so, it takes two hands to eat gorp.

Consider putting the trail mix in a small wide-mouth that allows you to eat it like a drink.

I am estimating 8-9hrs. I am not worried about the weight, other than the clothes, food, water, stove and a small first aid kit I am not bringing anything else. Temps good question. Its looking like the high will be somewhere in the low 20's high teens. Yes I would say you will be able to eat gloves off depending on the wind. Good call on the wide mouth. I have a round tupperware container that I can put that in.

cold weather = more calories.

don't count your "in the bank" calories, keep them in reserve.

so bring 250 calories per estimated hour with maybe an extra hour or two as backup if you have not done this before.

Ramon noodles = garbage
bring some decent food.

your current list of food is all real dense stuff, which is ok if you are planning on moving slowly. if you plan on pushing it, consider some gels for fast energy.

don't forget that shot glass of olive oil, ala Chouinard.

I am not planning on pushing it, last time I was above 12k ft I got altitude sickness and a cerebral edema and spent 8hrs hiking back down a mountain vomiting every 100ft or so. I have been acclimatizing myself for the last 8 months plus I have meds this time and plan on taking it easy. Saying bring some real food without making a suggestion is not very helpful. The ramen is something warm and salty to eat. Not eating it because its fine dining. Gels are a good suggestion as I generally don't like eating much while hiking for some reason my stomach never likes having much in it. Can you define "in the bank" calories? I do not know what you mean by this.

Some other foods I have thought about are

pb&j bagel sandwiches
muffins
snickers
fruit roll ups

snickers bars? sugar, fat, protein. Almost perfect food.

re. "in the bank calories"

I was referring to the entry above mine by Greg. I'm pretty sure he was referring to glycogen stores already in the body, which I wouldn't count as a food source in this instance because of the length of the effort. if your effort was 2 hours or less then maybe count glycogen.

sorry about no recommendations previously.

if moving slow or average, then food that is easy to chew and get down (even at altitude) that contains some long burning fat.
if you insist on the ramen then put some fat in it when you heat it, like butter or olive oil.

snickers are a double edge sword, lots of good stuff, but if you are sensitive to sugar intake it could just cause spikes and bonks.

I am not sensitive to sugar. If not Ramen, then what? And I'm all about the olive oil or butter.

Another consideration is will your snack food freeze up… I brought snack-size snickers last year to the Canadian Ski Marathon, and they were tooth-breakingly hard when frozen – very difficult to eat! Foods high in fat and low in moisture will remain the most pliable when frozen. I have had good success with slices of dry sausage (something like landjaeger), and slices of fruitcake remain quite chewable when frozen as well.

Yup, leave it to us Canucks to know what to eat in cold weather, lol!

Heath, Kim's point about your food freezing is a VERY good one. But you can also plan ahead and put your Snickers bars in your inside chest pocket (out of the cold, but not next to the body where they'll melt).

I would strongly encourage bringing a hot beverage (which you mentioned). I used either a lightweight thermos or a nalgene with an OR Bottle Jacket, and my liquids stayed warm for hours, no matter how cold the outside temperatures were. I found that, in the cold, I never felt thirsty, and drinking cold water just made me feel colder…but being able to sip on warm soup or water got me to consume at least a litre when I really didn't feel like it. For folks who have difficulty with altitude, hydration is extremely important — well worth the extra weight of the insulated bottle!

Good 'ol PB&J will work pretty well, although I'd trade the bagel for something softer given the "freeze" possibilities. My old hiking partner was very partial to high-end store bought chocolate chip cookies on our snowshoe hikes (President's Choice for the Canadians out there). I usually ate a variety of things… cashews are very high-fat and don't really freeze that badly. Trader Joe's has some yummy flavoured cashews; pecans and walnuts would also work, as would a block of cheese (pre-cut) and some Nature Valley Breakfast Biscuits.

I'm guessing you're doing either Humphreys or Agassiz (and if it's Agassiz, I'm green with envy, 'cuz it's on my list, but it can only be done when it's snow covered). Have a great time out there! :^)

I'm insulating my food in a small bag so hopefully nothing will freeze.

I can't eat a lot of high fat foods as I have a stomach condition that prevents me from eating high fat foods and acidic foods. Cashews are a no go in my house as my daughter is crazy allergic to them. Like instant anaphylactic shock allergic.

Valerie I am doing Humphreys. I'm heading back up there January 3rd. I plan on being at the summit for sunrise that day. You are welcome to come either day if you like. We are heading out tomorrow around 7:30 am.

Another consideration is will your snack food freeze up… I brought snack-size snickers last year to the Canadian Ski Marathon, and they were tooth-breakingly hard when frozen – very difficult to eat! Foods high in fat and low in moisture will remain the most pliable when frozen. I have had good success with slices of dry sausage (something like landjaeger), and slices of fruitcake remain quite chewable when frozen as well.

Another way to avoid that problem is for the food to be in small enough pieces. The traditional form of gorp (chocolate chips, raisins, peanuts) works just fine even in sub-zero temperatures. A suitable sized bag of that, or something similar, is all the food you really need for the day.

Edit: ooops … I posted this before reading about your problem with fatty foods. Sorry. There is still a message, though — freezing is less of a problem if the food chunks are small enough that freezing does not matter.

–MV

Do you all have an idea how long it'll take for something to freeze? I figure it isn't quite cold enough to freeze whats in my pack surrounded by my down jacket and rab synth jacket.

Do you all have an idea how long it'll take for something to freeze?

"I am planning on bringing either two liters of water or 1 liter of water …"

If your water bottle is NOT "Type 1" (not a 1 liter soda bottle), you have the option of filling it with hot water, then wrapping it and some food inside your puffy (or similar). Not only will your food not freeze, but if your water is hot enough you could have warm food for lunch.

I use a flat-sided liter container, fill it with boiling water, place a cheese sandwich next to it (cheesy side in, lettuce side out), wrap things up, and have a warm melted cheese sandwich for lunch. (Make sure your wrapper/ziplock is solid.) In addition, you'll have a Warm jacket to put on for lunch.

The answer to your question is "It depends". But I've had hot food 6 hours out, at 10° F.

My updated food list;

2 cups of trail mix
1 peanut butter and jelly sandwich
1 pack of ramen (not that maruchan crap)
2 banana nut muffins
2 pemmican bars
2 almond butters
4 power aid gels
2 snickers bars
2 date bars
1 clif bar.
1 bagel

Lot of fat in there will probably wreak havoc on my stomach but oh well. Looking like I have about 2,800 calories.

I am bringing 1 standard nalgene bottle (as its winter) and 1 18 ounce hydroflask with hot green tea.

I would go with 3 liters of water, I would fill up one Nalgene with boiling
water like Greg mentions and one with luke warm and wrap up the boiling one in some spare clothing.

Why the extra liter? I probably drink 3 liters of water in 2 full days of hiking. With it being cold and snow available I don't know if I want to carry the extra weight.

When your at altitude (especially in winter) you will
loose a lot of water through your breathing making you extra thirsty.

Also do you want to mess around with melting snow.

At 12,000 feet the winter air is very cold and very dry. Your exhaled breath will be warm and moist. As a result, there is a loss of both heat/energy and water.

–B.G.–

Sounds like you've got it dialed in, Heath. Tank up on water before you leave the car, have some extra liquid (protected) in the car for afterwards, and you should be golden!

BTW, my old nalgene + OR Bottle Jacket method would keep my liquids hot for about 4 hrs, then warm for an additional 4 hours, and that was in typical Adirondacks winter weather.

Bob, Stephen,
Got it 3 liters of water it is. And no I'd rather not melt snow. Well I am hitting the road now. Talk to you folks after I get back tomorrow.

"BTW, my old nalgene + OR Bottle Jacket method would keep my liquids hot for about 4 hrs, then warm for an additional 4 hours, and that was in typical Adirondacks winter weather."

I climbed Mount Washington in winter, and I carried a metal quart-size Thermos bottle full of hot tea. When I reached the summit, the hot tea was too hot to drink.

–B.G.–

Have a great day out Heath.