Return to Goretex in rainy climates?

I use Gore-Tex socks on most outings with normal mesh trail runners. If it is going to be dry for certain I may forego the socks or just keep them in my pack.

I use waterproof (Gore-Tex or similar) boots with gaiters for sub-freezing winter activities. They are warmer, are designed with wet weather in mind and so the outer layer soaks up less water, and it's one less layer of sock to think about. I've tried the train runner thing in the winter and have not been able to come up with a satisfactory and simple way to keep my feet warm all day.

I've always thought of it as coming down to a choice of having warm wet feet or cold wet feet. For mesh shoes/boots/runners cold weather rain and or snow will make your feet cold wet. But if you use a Gortex boot you will have warm wet feet. I prefer the latter in winter.

Billy

> Does the non-Goretex argument still hold?
Yep.
And keep your DRY WARM clothing well sealed inside your pack.

The sad reality is that no matter what you wear, you WILL get wet. Gore's 'guarranteed to keep you dry' marketing spin is 100% spin and 0% functional – in the field. You get wet.

Cheers

Gortex will keep you dry from rain but you will get wet from sweating. Maybe they need to add to that sentence.

The goretex socks are nice. I only use them if I am worried about my feet getting too cold.
They are less breathable than goretex shoes, so you should plan on changing socks. If your waterproof boots/shoes get wet, it gets all trapped in the lining and can't be dried out easily. With the goretex socks there isn't much there to absorb water so you can change socks and be dry.
Non mesh shoes, like with a tight nylon face (something like the salamon speedrosses or xt wings), are warmer when wet than open mesh shoes. They take longer to dry but if it's constantly raining then it doesn't matter.

What kind of Gore-tex socks are you all using? I will be hiking in the Sierra this coming season with my wife on the PCT and might encounter long stretches of snow. We'll be using trail runners already, but it's very important that I keep my wife's feet warm and wet as opposed to cold and wet. Can I do this with a Gore-Tex (or any other WPB) sock and regular sock combo?

Thanks for your input, and sorry for the thread drift

I use rocky brand goretex socks. They are good quality, should last a while. Pricy but worth it.

I think they would be perfect for your wife. I have used them in that way, for hiking on dry trails in non waterproof shoes and just slip them on when walking through slushy snow. I think most of the other "waterproof" socks out there don't work very well. The rocky goretex socks are the real deal and actually work.

They are also nice at night for keeping your dry sleep/camp socks dry while still wearing your shoes (same way people use plastic bread bags, but more durable).

I use goretex if there will be snow and trail runners if there won't. The exception is in the summer when there will be existing snow but it'll be too hot to care about cold feet either way.

I live in the PNW and left all Gore-Tex behind except for winter use, mostly limited to skiing. For hiking, I have a system built around a Zpacks cuben poncho/groundsheet, Cloud Kilt, and Rain Chaps. I can mix and match them depending on the temps, amount of wind and amount of rain. The system vents well, works even in high winds, and can handle a wide range of temperatures and levels of exertion. Gore-Tex, whether foot wear or rain gear, is never breathable enough I end up wet either from the inside or outside.

I will do a partial recant on GTX.

Both of us wear full length GTX gaiters and overmitts when ski touring. The GTX fabric seems to limit the anmount of sweat staying inside – sometimes! The GTX gauntlets are meant to allow some evaporation of condensation from inside the gloves.

Well, I imagine there would be a lot more condensation on the inside with plastic bags – but there is still a fair bit with GTX.

I guess if I was doing some outdoor job like directing traffic or running an OB camera I might appreciate a GTX jacket. But those jobs are standing still!

Cheers

First of all, Gore-tex boots/shoes: I think a lot of folks are not clear on how a Gore-tex shoe or boot is constructed. Basically you take a boot and you drop a gore-tex liner sock – fully seam-sealed – inside it ,glue it down to the midsole and probably to some other spots as well, and stitch it to the outer boot only at the top edge. So essentaially the saem as a gore-tex sock in a regular boot.
They are fully waterproof – at first. I've had numerous pairs of Gore-tex lined boots of various brands and they have all been, when new, totally waterproof – I could stand in water for hours as long as it did not come in over the top. But that doesn't last all that long in my experience, and even while it does, the outer fabric and leather will soak up all the water you got, so they take a long time to dry. Now for cold and wet situations they are pretty good when new but since the waterproofness never lasts anywhere near as long as the boot does it makes much more sense to just get Gore-tex socks – when they wear out you just get a new pair of socks, and the boots (without the gore-tex liner) are better for summer use because they will breathe better and dry much faster, and of course you can use the socks in any pair of footwear you choose.

AS for pants, I don't know. It has to be pretty darn cold for me to be able to hike in gore-tex pants and not sweat like crazy – since I'm obviously wearing a rain jacket as well under those circumstances. 40 degree rain maybe I could stay dry. Warmer than that I'm sweating anyway with just baselayer and shell so who knows where the water comes from? Condensation? Leakage? Just plain sweat? Either way I'm wet. I'm thinking of trying some eVent pants – I have some fabric – From what I can tell eVent does breathe better than Gore-tex.
After hearing how many folks in the UK like Paramo for cold rain, I have tried a kind of home-brew Paramo by wearing my EPIC pants – somewhat water-repellent – over powerfleece tights. I didn't stay dry, exactly, but I was pretty comfortable on a long day-hike in pouring rain. So that idea clearly has some merit.

Justin,

Did you size up from your normal shoe size for your Rocky socks?

I use rocky gtx socks too.
I had been told size up at least 1 size, maybe even 2 sizes.

Well, I wear an 11.5 and a 13 goretex sock was huge on me. About 5/8 inch longer and wider than my socked foot. My son, who wears a 14 -14.5 put them on over a PR of thin socks.

People who say this likely wear really thick socks to hike. I wear thin socks.

Go up no more than 1 size, possibly less . A 12 works for me.

I have like 9.5 super wide feet. I sized up to a 12 and I have lots of room in the toes, so I can't say how much you would size up for a normal width foot. The fit is good, I can fit an extra thick wool sock or a mid weight sock + liner sock.

For winter use I would def size up. Go ahead and size up either way, I have worn thin socks with the goretex socks being all loose and having the goretex sock loose wasn't an issue at all.

"People who say this likely wear really thick socks to hike. I wear thin socks."

I think most people are using the goretex socks for colder snow conditions, which you would want a thick sock for.

Thank you, gentlemen.

I've lived in rainy Seattle my entire life and try to hike year round. I'm surprised none of the locals mentioned using an umbrella. I carry my chrome dome whenever I know I might get rained on. I will typically wear a synthitic fill jacket as my outer layer and rely on the umbrella to keep the rain off me. I wear a Zpack skirt over my legs. I will admit that I carry an eVent jacket and Outdoor Research GTX rain hat if the wind is to strong for an umbrella.
If I'm day hiking I wear trail runners. If I'm out for more then one day I wear GTX socks.

I'm from WA too, you will get used to the wet eventually, even if it isn't raining I will sprint through streams to cool off. For a Vapor layer I use old 3mil greenhouse plastic taped up burrito style with a open envelope fold on the toes(the tape goes before the plastic does so I bring extra tape), inside is a cheap nylon sock and a silk/wool sock I found at REI on sale that has extra padding under the feet. defeet wool on the outside of plastic. it isn't 100% water proof when sticking your foot in a stream, but will make me forget there is snow for 3-5 hours. Then I change my socks which will add another 2-4 hours of before I get reminded that it all needs to gets dried out at camp. if you don't mind hot boxing your feet on the cheap, i used to use bread bags, and sometimes if it were wet snow I would wear two bags per foot, one on the outside of my defeet wool, it keeps the wool layer drier and warmer but requires more attention to the feet. carrying 4bags on 30+ mile hikes, came in handy for other things too.

that rain skirt/chaps is a good idea, I always get hot in rain pants. In the snow I found wearing nylon under military 100% wool pants (not UL 2lb) will keep me at a good moving/idle warmth and don't seem to ever stay wet only when down pouring, that is when I will use my ground sheet as a skirt.

ps. native Washingtonians don't use umbrellas, old growth don't let them last that long.

If the temperatures appear to remain above freezing for the duration of the trip, I don't bring anything to keep my feet dry. My La Sportiva Wildcats drain water really well and while damp, my Wright socks aren't sponges either. My feet have been wet for days at a time like this and it really wasn't a problem for me. GTX boots can become like walking around in two Tupperware dishes full of toe funk stew and my feet don't fare well in those conditions.

Your feet may vary.

My experience with several GTX-shoes and they all started to leak way too early. Gore tests all models with GTX for waterproofness with an ‘amasing 200.000 steps’ which is maybe only 100 miles.

For cold and/or winter: Lightweight footwear systems for snow travel

While the goretex in a new boot may wear out and let in water after a time, my gtx boot is by then pretty much worn out and ready for a new pair. It's funny this subject came up as I wrote this in my last trip report about my Asolo Fugitive gtx boots—

THE ADVANTAGES OF GORETEX BOOTS
Okay, let's reason it out. 85% of all creek crossings in the Southeast mountains of TN, Georgia, NC and VA are easy fords between 1 to 6 inches deep and so whatever you are wearing will sink to that depth in order to do a ford or to rock hop. Try these little crossings in fabric boots or trail runners and POW you've just saturated your socks—not good on the first day of a 21 day winter trip. A good boot with a GTX liner is able to pull 6 inch deep wades with no leaks, and of course you don't stand in the water for 20 minutes. Fabric boots soak in water like a canvas tennis shoe and so the high need for an above ankle GTX boot.

Even my full leather boot (Asolo 520) is goretex.

I wonder if those new GTX-liners from Dead Bird will be another (expensive) option for those in search of WP/B-socks ?

From OP: "What are your thoughts? How do you handle the very wet climates? Does the non-Goretex argument still hold? Or do those of you in wet climates end up using the Goretex?"

As usual, will dissent from the majority. A lot depends on whether you are talking wet/cold, wet/medium, or wet/warm.

For wet/cold, heed the majority. They have the experience that I don't.

For wet/medium – most of CONUS in Jun to Sep – I've been able to keep dry in extended rains in the NE and lately, CO (climate change), lasting 2-3 days, as follows:
1. Use the best Patagonia WB tops – have worked much better than GTX – Specter (1st
ed) and M10.
2. Treat mid boots well for leather and DWR (especially on the fabric surfaces)
Even worked on cheaper boots like Keen; but switched to Salomon – more durable
3. Wear heavier synthetic sox like Lorpen trekkers – durable, Coolmax, dry much
faster than wool, still feel dry if damp
4. Wear any good WPB shorty gaiter, incl GTX, over the boots/sox to keep water out.
5. Wear only Patagonia Baggies & mesh briefs. If legs get cold, add some fleece
underneath up top. Have tried softshell bottoms, but they eventually wet out.
6. Wear a WPB med. brim bucket cap – over a kerchief if too warm. In a deluge, the
cap stays on under the hood, keeping water off the eyeglasses, compass, map etc.
7. Don't overheat and overwhelm the WPB. Also, Speed + Slick = Injury
8. Use a shelter with a good awning(s) that pitches dry in the rain. A dry place to
recoupe, cook, eat, stash wet stuff etc., provides an environment to stay dry
9. Avoid totally immersing the boots at all costs – Carry SUL fording shoes.
10. Carry spikes if any chance of snowfields

There are probably more, but those come to mind. Probably wouldn't work in parts of the NW US that are close to rain forest weather. Daryl posted about the dryer weather in eastern Washington State. But has worked on combo kayak/BP trips where first week or two were on the water and it rained hard & incessantly. An extra tarp made life bearable. Wore plastic baggies over the sox under the sneakers to keep feet from freezing. Top stayed dry, but skin on feet got so saturated that couldn't hike for 3 days without it sloughing off. Was so glad to get back on the trail, even in the rain.