Which arcteryx hardshell?

I'm 6'0 172# and I have the Theta SV (Expedition Fit) in medium, Beta FL (slim fit) in medium and Beta LT (athetlic fit) in large. The mediums fit WAY better but under the medium Beta FL I can only barely fit a 60g/m^2 jacket underneath whereas it's quite easy with the size large Beta LT.

The large is obviously big on me but not excessive. I do not really feel like I am swimming in it but I really prefer the trimmer fit of the mediums. Since you aren't likely to wear a hardshell over more than a light fleece I don't see the need to upsize a hardshell. It fits even larger than the medium Theta SV expedition fit, which easily accommodates an extra layer without seeming too big over just a base layer.

Remember, a hard shell breathes by temperature differentials – if the shell is too far from skin it won't get warmth needed to push humidity out, which is why I prefer trimmer fitting hard shells and so should you.

Bruce,

You said, "Just wondering why put the puffy under the hardshell for winter camping.
Are you expecting it to rain?"… brain not rain is the reason.

Every type of down jacket is warmer if worn under rather than over a shell. This occurs primarily from the captured dead air space between the baffle indentations and the shell. The deeper the baffle indentations or the smaller the baffles, then the more the increase in ensemble warmth results from the proper layering sequence. Even a smooth surface box baffled design, like the Montbell Mirage, increases its insulation value by ~15% (my lab tests) by the addition of a shell; this is independent of the wind speed. The less efficient garment constructions have even bigger improvements.

Do to the thermal mass of the human body; it is not possible you can become hypothermic from merely removing a shell to put insulation under it. You can become slightly chilled; so, if the period of time is relatively short, the puffy over the shell is OK. For extended periods of time like camp chores, it is the antithesis of maximum warmth for minimum weight.

Richard,

I don't disagree that what you're saying is true but I also wear the puffy or fleece on the outside of my shell when the conditions are right.

Typically what I find when, let's say snowshoeing, that I have (hopefully) my layers dialed in so I'm in my comfort zone and preferably towards the cooler side of it if possible.

When I stop to take a quick calorie break, I'm already warm so I'll just throw my puffy on over my shell to keep me from getting a chill during the break. I know the textbook answer is to have your layers dialed in enough that you don't sweat during the winter but invariably I will somewhat, even with my jacket fully vented.

Wearing my puffy over my shell helps to protect it from the sweat.

I may not be maximizing the down sweater's full potential but it works for me.

To each their own.

just as a note … for climbers the belay poofay is meant to go over the shell generally (unless its raining real hard) … not under

the reason for this is to reduce the amount of faff, especially on belays where you might be hanging … and each time you take off and put on another shell, not only do you lose some heat generated from climbing the past pitch, you also risk dropping said jacket especially in high winds

the system for climbing is theoretically an additive one … which means you never take off a layer to put on another … you simply add layers or decrease them without the additional faff

KISS

now in practice this isnt always so especially in calm conditions and with thinner down sweaters … but in climbing thick poofays anyways almost always go over the shells

;)

Extrem Alpinism … :-)

But aside from a really working layering system, a windlayer over the puffy increases its warmth. No doubt about it. Only, I have no windlayer that fits perfect over a baselayer as well as over a nice puffy.

Bruce, I want to keep my puffy dry from precipitation, mostly in the liquid form. My standard procedure in wet and cold is to get all of my wet top layers off, put on a down puffy, and put the rain jacket over that. My current rain jacket is some cheap coated thing that is very roomy and can fit over everything.

That way I can do stuff outside of my shelter when it's precipitating while staying warm. I can work on getting my shelter set up right and get a fire going. I can leave my shelter in the night for a bathroom break, readjust my guy lines, and knock snow off while it's really coming down without having to take off my puffy to avoid getting it wet. Stuff like that.

I don't plan to wear the puffy while hiking.

I'm thinking a puffy with 5-6 ounces of down like the montbell mirage. Anything heavier than that then it would be too cold to need a shell, right? I don't have any experience with precipitation that won't get me wet without a shell.

Eric that makes sense for climbers but how do they prevent getting their poofay wet if it's raining/snowing?

Eric that makes sense for climbers but how do they prevent getting their poofay wet if it's raining/snowing?

fluffy snow is fine … synthetic with easily shrug that off … even down with good DWR in constantly below freezing temps will deal with it

wet snow, youll want synthetic

as to rain, most folks dont go climb in the rain, and those who do (the crazy brits) bring synthetics or fleece anyways (the pile and pertex is a brit invention)

in the rain you dont need a thick poofay … a fleece and synth combo is fine … in these cases 2 thinner poofays are better than one larger one … you can fit both under a rain jacket generally though at the expense of more faff

;)

Justin if you're thinking about getting a Mirage you might stick with the medium Alpha or Beta shell. My large Mirage as stated above does not really fit inside a medium Alpha LT. I bet you'd be a medium in the Mirage and that might fit OK inside a medium Alpha/Beta.

Justin, when I was your size I was a perfect Arc' small. I find their chest measurements to be spot on. Also, you can always email to get actual chest measurements. I did this and they were very accommodating in getting me the info.

I have an older arc alpha lt, when they were "expedition" cut in size medium. It's still baggy on me and I'm a 38 chest, 5'11" and 165lbs now. It will definitely fit my MH Phantom under it too! If they still use the 'expedition' fit it'll be fine. Their site lists all the "fit" sizes. I would say baselayer is going to be cut to the measurements used for sizing (so a baselayer small will be 36" exactly across the chest). Each increase in "fit" type feels like it adds about a 1.5" to the circumference (about a 1/4" gap between skin and garment). Since the new alphas are "trim" fit you'll definitely want at least a medium if you're going to layer.

I'd vote for the Alpha FL because of its simple design light weight and longer cut.

EDIT: Just saw your second post. If you can buy any item from their line ( I'd also like to know how you got this golden ticket haha but you don't have to tell :) ) I wouldn't use it on a hardshell that doesn't get used that often, rather I'd use it on a soft-shell . Don't get me wrong, hardshells definitely serve their purpose, but I've never really found that premium goretex shells are that essential for backpacking.When I'm hiking I usually have my shell in my pack, and only put it on when I'm stopped. If I were you I would take a closer look at their soft-shell lineup. Think of this: A nice soft-shell that you can wear through your entire day hiking (and then throw a cheap rainshell over when the weather gets bad) is going to be a lot more valuable than a mediocre soft-shell with a high end shell that you use rarely. And in the winter you don't even need to worry about a hard-shell unless you are getting a lot of slushy snow.

Check out the gamma LT for a shell that you can use for everything until the mercury really drops. or the gamma/venta mx for a cold weather option.

Best

Another thought I'd like to add: A a good goretex PANT is probably much more valuable because unlike your upper body, your legs tend to perspire a lot less. So I often skip the soft-shell pant to save weight and just hike in my rainshell pants which CAN keep up with the heat and sweat produced by hiking.

Alok, where I'm going winter camping I need a hardshell. It's too warm to not have a hardshell. I don't see what advantage a heavy softshell has over a breathable nylon windshirt but that's a different discussion.

Dustin you said "older arc alpha lt, when they were "expedition" cut in size medium". How old? I'm asking because the alpha fl has a "slim" fit. I've seen andrews alpha lt which gives me a basis, I don't know what the "fit" of his is.

This is such a headache figuring this out.

When I talk about fitting a puffy under my shell, I'm talking about cold/wet shoulder season type weather. Something with like 5 ounces of down. I get cold easily. I realize that I don't need a shell when it's snowing.

If you decide to get the beta lt, given your height and build, I assume you probably wear a 38r in a jacket, If you do, you probably want a medium if you want to layer a puffy underneath. The jacket is cut slim. For ref, I wear a 36s and I can fit a Patagonia ultralight down hoody underneath my small beta lt with just enough room for the down to not be compressed.

if you want an all around jacket with a roomy cut check out the theta jackets they are suited to what activities you are describing

Get the Beta AR…. you will regret not getting something with pit zips, I promise.

I saw this and wanted to resurrect this old thread..

I am looking at 2 shells to use for 4 season, the Alpha AR and FL.  I have tried them on in a size small and both fit good.  Do you think that the AR is a bit overkill to bring on light summer trips in New England? I am not sold, nor deterred on the single pocket of the FL, but 2 pockets could be a plus. Any input on favoring one over the other? Thanks!

I hike and run in New England and use an Alpha FL. Love the fit and at the time I purchased it, packed volume was one of my concerns for fitting into a running pack.  So I would have favored it over the AR for that reason.

Now I’ve added a Norvan SL for running trips, so the Alpha is just for backpacking and winter use.  I’d probably prefer the AR at this point for the pit zips and the ability to fit bulkier layers underneath.  Having at least one pocket is very convenient.  I don’t find the second pocket necessary.

Both are really overkill for light NE summer stuff, from a cost standpoint.

Good input Nathan.  I will be predominately using this in fall / winter / spring NH, Maine and ADK’s.  I do realize that it is a little overkill for summer UL backpacking. That is the downfall of getting a 4 season use jacket It looks like.

Did you find you Alpha FL to hot for summer use whether running or BP’ing? Thanks

No, I haven’t found it too hot. But it rarely gets used in summer. Mostly stays in the pack. The times it does get used tend to be in pretty nasty conditions above treeline with heavy winds and driving rain.  When a storm lets up I’ve found it sufficient to unzip the front a bit to manage temperature vs. taking the jacket off and on as the rain comes and goes.