Which arcteryx hardshell?

[Justin Baker]

I have access to a very steep discount for any one artecteryx item which expires at the end of this year. Normally I wouldn't spend that much a hardshell but this is too good to pass up.
Which one should I get?
I want a good all around hardshell. Something can handle a bit of light to moderate bushwhacking or the occasional rock scrape but still be light enough that I can carry it anywhere.

I'm looking at the ALPHA FL and the BETA LT. They both seem simmilar but the ALPHA FL is a little lighter. Would those be good compromises between weight, durability, and function?

It will be used for times when I expect rain, shoulder seasons, winter snow camping, or any time I expect a little more abrasion than an ultralight rain jacket could handle. But I want something that won't be a huge brick in my pack if the weather turns out to be nice.
For summer alpine hiking I can use something light like a dri ducks or marmot mica and for serious nasty bushwacking I can bring some cheap coated jacket to tear up.
Hopefully that explains my intended usage for the jacket.

[tt quattro]

I've recently picked up a beta lt and it's much tougher than my previous goretex paclite rain shell for the same weight.

Both the fl and the lt use the same materials. The fl doesn't have two hand pockets. Is that important to you? It is to me hence why the beta lt. I can't confirm how air permeable the jacket is yet, but I wasn't clammy after hiking a few miles in it this past weekend in 45* weather wearing the equivalent of a r1 underneath it.

[Ian]

The pocket on the Alpha FL looks like it's in a better position for backpacking that the pockets on the Beta LT. I'd like to buy the Alpha FL or SV but wow… that price tag. Some day.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

based on the Paclite I have (also from Dead Bird), I can't recommeds it. Once it wets out very prone to condensation and ver uncomfortable on skin.

and oh (@ Dustin), on any Dead Bird stuff or just the GTX ones ? ;-)

[Justin Baker]

Both the alpha fl and beta lt are pro shell.
I'm looking for pro shell right now. I can get one of any item they sell, not just hardshells.

[Ian]

What type of sorcery did you use to obtain this golden ticket?

[Justin Baker]

What are the hand pockets like? Are they for warming up your hands (like lined with a soft material) or just for carrying things? That single chest pocket would be a nice size for a phone/map/compass.

[Steve K]

With the new ePTFE-based Gore-Tex Pro for this year (has no PU layer, a first for Gore-Tex) the Beta LT is the correct choice for most backpackers looking at the Arcteryx hard shell lineup.

It is more durable than the Beta FL that it replaces and more breathable as well.

The pockets are a nice place to keep your hands protected from the weather and they do not interfere with the pack belt. The Alpha FL only has a single chest pocket, which I do not prefer. The pockets are unlined, the same material inside and out as the rest of the shell.

Woubeir you are thinking of the Beta SL, which is Paclite. The SL are the only designation from Arcteryx that use Paclite; everything else is Gore-Tex Pro and Active Shell.

[Justin Baker]

sent you a pm Ian.

[James Couch]

The Alpha series are designed primarily for alpine climbing – hence the lack of 'handwarmer' pockets and other features most people would want.

The Beta series is a more all around garment. Still works for climbing, but more suitable for hiking and other uses. Has more pockets and a bit longer cut.

Both series have a trim fit, be sure you know what size you need.

I also believe that neither jacket has pit zips. For some people this is a deal breaker, but it is part of where the weight savings is coming from.

The Beta and Alpha AR both do have pit zips.

[Mateo Hao]

You will appreciate the two hand-pockets of the Beta LT. The Alpha FL, while lighter, is meant for climbing or mountaineering where you don't want dangling things in the way of a harness, and where your hands will be otherwise occupied.

I have the Beta LT Hybrid, which is similar in fit and options. The hand pockets are very good at protecting your hands from biting cold or wind. I also keep things like compasses, wallets, earbuds, receipts, and other small doodads in there. While it isn't as roomy as the Beta AR, it can fit the thorium down hoody without trouble. The "trim" cut is also very slimming and looks fabulous on the street. Talk about multi-use.

Unless you privilege more layering room or pit zippers, I highly recommend the Beta LT. It's about as nice as you can go in terms of backpacking jackets.

[Justin Baker]

I would really like a jacket that I can fit a 1 pound puffy and fleece underneath with. For winter camping. I recall a thread where Andrew F said he could fit a mountain hardware phantom under his alpha lt medium. He is just slightly bigger/heavier than me.
Did they change the fit? I am 5'10 150 lbs.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=57665

I'm probably not going to be able to return this thing if I get the wrong size.

[Mateo Hao]

I'm 5' 11", 145lb. I got my trim fit Beta LT Hybrid in April 2014.

For you, I put on a REI polartec short sleeve shirt Med, Columbia fleece zip jacket Sm (smaller size keeps things trim in the under-layers), Arcteryx Thorium AR hoody Med, and Beta LT Hybrid Med.

It is comfortable with no appreciable loss of movement range. There is still some shell wrinkling , so the puffy jacket lofting isn't being compressed.

[Andrew F]

Given how your Alpine Start fit me I'd say I'm probably a size bigger than you Justin. The REI here carries a bunch of Arc jackets, maybe you could try one on for sizing somewhere?

[Justin Baker]

Thank you trying those on Mateo. That helps with figuring out the fit.

Andrew, on the last trip were you wearing an alpha lt in medium? Could you fit your mirage under it without compression?

[James holden]

Justin

You are a perfect dead bird medium for the jackets anyways

Some jackets have a trimmer fit, the dead bird site should say under each product

Get something with their new pro fabric … If yr going to get dead bird on sale get the best

Up here in vancouver/ squamish dead bird frequently goes on sale for 50%+ off at the end of the season …

;)

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

"everything else is Gore-Tex Pro and Active Shell."
Actually, they also now use regular GTX, some in the so called 'soft shell' style (although it's called now GTX with a low/high loft backer).

Regarding pockets: what one prefers e.g. my jacket has only a chest pocket and it's perfect for me.

[Andrew F]

Mine is a medium. Couldn't close the front zip of the alpha with the Mirage underneath without seriously compressing it, but I guess according to that link you posted, at some point I could fit it over a MH phantom (which isn't quite as lofty.) There's plenty of room over my UL down parka. The medium for me is somehow both well-fitted and roomy, I guess that's why it's a $500 jacket…

For reference I'm 5'10 and 180 lb.

[Cameron Habib]

Some great info in here, I'll just throw in my two cents for what it's worth.

The Alpha FL and Beta LT are going to be, in essence, the same basic jacket. The Alpha line is usually cut a bit slimmer, even for the same "cut" styles, lacks hand warmer pockets, and features a Hemlock insert, which prevents riding up on a harness or hip belt (and can be removed to save an additional few grams), something I've found very useful. Aside from that, they both use the newer N40p-X and Pro-3L fabrics, with similar construction, etc.

I personally find the hand warmer pockets of the Beta line to be fairly useless. If it's cold or windy, they provide no additional warmth, especially when compared to a thin glove, when it's wet, they provide no real protection from rain since water will easily find it's way down your arm into the pocket. They're also a bit harder to access, as you're forced to swing your arm all the way out to reach in to your pocket, whereas the cross-over pockets can be accessed without much movement.

Given that, and the weight difference, I say go for the Alpha FL. I have one shell jacket from Arc, a Alpha SV, and have maintain that it's one of my favorite outdoor pieces of all time. Similarly, if you don't mind an extra ounce, the Alpha AR is a great jacket as well, giving you an extra pocket, and N80p-X reinforcements to make the jacket stand up to quite a bit more abuse. If you're getting half off, I say go big and grab that over the other two.

[Ralph Burgess]

I have the Alpha FL, and I think it's a great choice for what you want. I haven't tried on the Beta LT, but so far as I can tell the only difference is the pockets, and maybe a slightly less snug fit?

I think this is the lightest jacket on the market using state-of-the-art 3-layer Goretex Pro. My Medium weighs 10.9oz. I've only had it 6 months, so I can attest to durability, but it doesn't feel flimsy. This is a proper 4-season rain jacket that can take you safely thought major weather. And I've found in practice that the weight is critical – at only 5oz more than an ultralight rain shell, it's much more likely to be in my pack in when there's a marginal forecast. And I always feel safer with this in my pack. If my only option were a heavier duty 16oz jacket, more often than not I'd just take a chance and leave it ouf of my pack unless the forecast were dire.

This is a slim athletic fit for climbers. You won't have room for puffy layering underneath, so this cut is not suitable for extreme cold conditions.

[Justin Baker]

The beta and alpha, do they size up well? I mean if I sized up to a larger size would the fit become awkward?
I'm not going to be using this thing around town so I'm not concerned about a super cool looking cut.

[Ian]

Here's their sizing guide.

http://www.arcteryx.com/sizing-chart.aspx?EN/men-s-trim-fit-top-sizing-chart

Do you use the hand warmer pocket with your current shell?

[Bruce Tolley]

Just wondering why put the puffy under the hardshell for winter camping.
Are you expecting it to rain?

When I am out doing rudimentary mountaineering or winter snowshoeing and snow camping I just put my puffy over my hardshell when stationary or cooking and moving around camp in the morning or evening.

When expecting very low temps in the Sierra Nevada I sometimes take a primaloft vest to wear under my shell.

I got a bit hypothermic a couple of times from windchill above the tree line while taking off my shell to remove or put on the puffy. Hence my decision to keep the puffy on the outside.

[David Ure]

I used the Tecto FL this past year and it has proven impressive. Made with Gortex Active 3L it has been both durable and extremely breathable – easily on par with the eVent jackets I have used in the past but the DWR stays on better. It is much more breathable than Gortex Pro. I wouldn't bushwack with it, however. It is also 'featureless' in that there are no outside hand pockets (ideal with a pack, IMHO). Excellent hood and typical Arcteryx quality.

Expensive at MSRP but I paid much less on sale.

[Ralph Burgess]

Justin – fit of Alpha FL:

I'm 6'2", 165lb with long arms, slightly short torso for my height. The Alpha in Medium fits me perfectly: it is snug without being tight, there room underneath is just right for a base layer and (say) an R3 fleece. It's beautifully cut, designed for climbers, so that I can raise my arms above my head without the jacket riding up at all.

There would not be room inside the Medium for a more substantial puffy underneath for extreme cold. And I don't think that sizing up would work well (for my build at least), the arms and body are already plenty long in the Medium, they would be too long in the Large. And I think the great mobility of the underarm fit would be lost in the bagginess of a Large. I think this is not the right cut for anyone with big chest & biceps (or a significant belly…)

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