First Light purchase—sleeping bag/quilt or shelter?

2 questions which might help:

1. What does your budget for whichever one you're looking for look like?

2. What kinds of conditions/temps/etc. do you usually see when you go out?

Just as sort of a blind suggestion (not knowing the above), I would be inclined to suggest upgrading the bag to a quilt (or lighter bag) first, since you can shed a LOT of weight from the 4.9lbs noted above. (Also, probably some pack space, since I assume that a bag that hefty is not the most compressible thing in the world.) If you're good with going quilt, you can get something in the 20* 19-20oz range from Enlightened Equipment in the range of $250 or so. I have no idea if that's in your price range or not, but I'll echo the prevailing wisdom on here that a good down bag/quilt is well worth the investment.

I suggest the quilt/bag first, since it's going to be a lot less of a change to what you're used to than going to a tarp, etc. Also, if you pretty regularly go out with a partner and are splitting the tent weight, it's not too bad. (2.15lb per person isn't bad).

In my opinion, the sleeping bag deserves attention first. Buy the best/lightest one you can afford. I ended up getting my Montbell Bag in like new condition off of http://www.geartrade.com for a good price. Once you figure out which one will work for you, post a WTB in Gear Swap here at BPL.

Switching to a tarp is the cheapest way to lighten your load. I think the level of skill to transition to it is greatly exaggerated.

Basically you need to:

a) look at the ground and make sure you're not setting up camp over an area where water will collect
b) practice setting up your tarp a couple times at home and try to duplicate the process in the wild. Be flexible and have enough cordage to tie off to trees, sticks and rocks when your stakes won't go into the ground.
c) Be cognizant of which way the wind is blowing and tends to blow so you don't pitch your tarp in a way where it becomes a wind tunnel.
d) have a ground sheet big enough to pull up to block any spray/splash. I rarely need to do this.

I'd start with a 8×10 and then shrink the size of it as you become more comfortable with it.

You can do have a sub 1lb shelter for $50-$100.

Given your current equipment, you will save more weight per dollar spent on a new bag/quilt than on a new shelter. For example, an Enigma quilt from EE would save you more than 3.5 lbs and cost under $250.

Sounds like you have the most to gain by replacing your sleeping bag with a lighter one or buying a quilt. Sounds like you are planning on sticking with a 2P tent. So by moving to something like a TT Double Rainbow you'd save about 1.8lb by spending $300.

With a quilt like an EE Enigma you'd save 3.9lb and spend $235 on a 30 degree.

If you'd rather stick with a sleeping bag, the Kelty Trail Logic 32 is a great bag for the price. 800 fill water resistant down. bag comes in at 1lb 9oz for $249. Still saves you 3lb off your current setup.

Like everyone else, I say a bag. A quality down bag or quilt will last you a lifetime. Getting a decent sleeping bag was probably the best purchase I ever made. Having a nice warm and cozy bag to sleep in also let me be more adventurous with lightening my load. Can't stress it enough, but there's something about having a quality down sleep system that makes everything else seem ok :)

Lightening your shelter is also easy to do really cheap if you're open to tarps. A blue poly tarp or plastic painter's cloth is really cheap to get. It's also a really quick way to drop 3 lbs from your current shelter.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Enlightened Equipment quilts sound like around what I am looking for. Will check out Gear Trade.

I forgot to add that I was looking for 3 season gear, with the coldest temperature I would see being something akin to mid to late October in Yosemite when still water freezes overnight. Is a 20ºF rating warmer these days?

And yes, I am very open to tarps. I still know a few knots, and I encounter this recurring problem among 3 man trips with the fact that everyone only has 2P tents.

Sounds like I could afford both.

+1 more on everything above.

another reason to go with the quilt/bag first: It's an easier decision, mainly three questions:

1. quilt or bag
2. down or synthetic
3. what temp rating

If you're settled on that, then it's done. Shelters — so many more incremental variations. Unless of course you try a tarp, love it, and stop there.

A down sleeping bag (or quilt) is one of the best purchases you can make. It's also usually the most expensive, but it's cheap over the long run once you realize how long they last.

I started out with a cheap $10 tarp which I used for the first year of backpacking. I did upgrade to a silny tarp after a year, but not until I had a nice bag (which I still use ~11 years later).

Target a bag/quilt < 2 lbs. then buy a $50 8×10 sil-nylon tarp. You will be less than 4 lbs for both shelter and bag.

I would buy a bag first. Wouldn't buy a quilt, as they have a learning curve and not everyone likes them. I experimented with a cheap light quilt I bought here on gear swap that is only good for summer. I still use it, and it was a good purchase for me as I later bought a couple quilts.

My first good light bag was a Western Mountaineering. I went to a store that had plenty of them in stock and spent a couple hours trying them on… a good store will have mats and lots of space available to try out the bags.

As for shelters, that takes some time to research. I like tarps, but many people can't just jump into a tarp, they take some experimenting and practice; and some people just don't like them. If you don't think you'll like a tarp, I would start by reviewing all of Tarptent.com shelters. Then take a look at Mountain Laurel Designs and Six Moons offerings. There are other manufacturers out there but these three have been around a long time and you can't go wrong with any of them as long as you pick the shelter that fits your needs.

Personally I would upgrade the heaviest item if it is within your budget. For me it was my sleeping bag and it looks like it would be for you as well. It was also cheaper at the time to upgrade than my tent, especially since I wanted a cuben tent. Check the classifieds here, lots of good deals to be had.

Buy a bag first (not a quilt). Down. Warm enough to cover the coldest nights where you will be most of the time. Western Mountaineering, Marmot etc.

Spare no expense. Why? Because it is almost the only thing you will purchase that, if properly cared for, will last the rest of your life. May end up being in the long run the cheapest gear provided you are fully happy with it. Also the most expensive part of the kit – best to get the pain over with.

Trust me, you will NEVER be %100 satisfied with any shelter. You will torment yourself for years over the trade-offs inherent in sleeping pads and cooking systems. You have been warned! But buy a great down bag that will last forever and you will always have a tranquil island of stability to retreat to amidst the chaotic sea of near insanity that is the never-ending UL gear quest.

Edit: based on your follow up I'd say a reasonable first lightweight bag (for shoulder seasons in high sierra)might be the Marmot Helium. Unlike some more UL bags it open up pretty well if it is warmer outside. It is a great bag, but produced in large numbers, and it seems they are always on sale somewhere.

If you think you might like a quilt, get the quilt.

I went right from a heavy synthetic bag to a down quilt, and have no regrets. Never owned a down bag, never want to.

That said, I also knew I vehemently disliked mummy bags, so a quilt was an clear choice for me. Gauge your own curiosity, preferences, and risk tolerance on that one.

Why not go for a quilt? I understand Nicks suggestion of starting off with a cheaper lightweight quilt to see if you like it but of course that would be a summer time affair. If you plan on making a purchase soon and going out in colder temps then you will be purchasing a more expensive down bag to start and one that you will want to most likely hang onto for a long time. It took me a long time to finally make the decision to transition to a quilt and I'm glad I did. If you are considering a quilt, plan on this being a long term purchase, and want to move on it soon then I would suggest going for a quilt straight away. In consideration of using a quilt you also need to think about keeping your head warm which would require an insulated cap of some sort. I have a hooded down jacket that I bring on colder trips. This is an additional expense to your sleeping system but I enjoy my down jacket on cold evenings and mornings around camp as well.

+1 on what everyone above has said.

Without question, get a nice down sleeping bag or quilt first. Don't settle for anything less than 750 fill power down. Seriously, you'll thank me later. Shoot for 20*F bag/quilt that weighs 1-1.5 lbs.

There is simply no replacing a high quality down bag. No way to cut corners in terms of cost, but as those above have said, it's actually cheap in the long run. I've had a Western Mountaineering bag for well over 10 years and it still works just as well today as the day I bought it. Just take the long view on this particular item and reap the benefits over the years.

As for a shelter, a $50 silnylon tarp can perform as just well as or better than a $400 tent given the right setup and the right conditions. This is an area where you can actually "cut corners," and by that I mean just using an inexpensive tarp and a Tyvek groundsheet which will only cost you very little and can still yield a stellar result for a low amount of weight.

Move on to your sleeping pad after you've taken care of your bag/quilt and your shelter. The "Big 3" is a myth. It should really be "Big 4" with the sleeping pad being the last item. It is an integral part of your sleeping system.

Address your pack last since your pack needs will change depending on the weight and bulk of your newly upgraded items. And don't sacrifice pack carrying comfort to save a few ounces. You will eventually regret it.

Good luck in shedding the pounds!

Many years ago, when I first started spending serious money on outdoor gear, my first purchase was a good down bag (from Gerry). We all used tarps. It was a good decade before I got a backpacking tent. This was in Arizona – temps from the mid 60s to -30F.

As everyone else says, get the bag first. You will be glad you did.

"Why not go for a quilt?"

For me it was because he specifically mentioned (in a follow up post) the end of October in the Sierra. A quilt could hardly be more perfect for above freezing situations in the Sierra, but down in the low 20/high teens it requires a lot of experience and technique – not to mention a stiff upper lip. I have those, and several nights in the 20's with a high end 20 degree quilt where a bag would clearly have been more comfortable if I had been smarter. In my Helium for the same condition I slept like a baby. Also as people have mentioned, a lot of people for whatever reason don't like quilts. Remember, he is jumping from a 4 1/2 lb bag, not trying to squeeze the last few oz out.

+ 1 on all the bag comments. A quality quilt, is a nice piece of geat, but with temps possibly in the teens most people will prefer a bag. I've slept in both, down to 0F, and for me a bag makes the cut once it gets below freezing now even though I am good with a quilt. It is also important to note, that as temps get in the teens there should be a big focus on keeping yourself in shape so that you can sleep to the rated temps well of a bag. There is a big difference in how effective sleep gear is if you have a warm shower and good meal vs. sweated all day, got chilly and did't eat well.

I'm sorry to hijack this thread, but can someone point me in the direction of these $50 silnylon tarps several of you have referenced. I have been wanting to try a tarp for next year but it seemed like my options were to MYOG one for a decent price or spend at least $100 on a commercial one. Where would one find these cheap tarps?

Jesse,
Decent 8×10 silnylon tarps commonly get sold for around $50 here on BPL Gear Swap. Though of course those are used tarps.

You can also sew your own for $50 or less in material costs.

It is true that if you want a new manufactured 8×10 silnylon tarp then you are probably going to have to spend around $100.

Borah Gear sells their 5.5×9 tarp for $50 and their 9×9 & 8×10 tarps for $95.

Overall, bags do tend to be better for more extremely cold temps…

With that said, i've used a 0 degree quilt in -3 or so F* degrees and was fine. The quilt is large–i'm relatively small, and i was wearing some warm down clothes also. Another time, in similar temps/conditions, i wore just baselayers with a VBL top and was relatively fine. I'm not recommending it, especially to newbies, but just saying that technically, it can be done.

I'm looking forward to further "Polar Vortexes" this winter, as we had last winter because fewer people go out in these, and my closest good areas of hiking otherwise tend to be more crowded (i live in VA), that and i like challenge.

Tarps on sale, gear swap, or the standard campmor PU nylon are places where most people get their cheap tarps. You can also MYOG tarp pretty easy and cheap. You can always do the blue nylon packing tarps for under $20 too.

So…

I managed to snag a Western Mountaineering Apache MF on eBay for a good deal.

Hot damn it's so comfy and I'm tempted to throw out my bed.

Lo and behold I found they make comforters, too.