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20% off 508.00 retail = $391 at Backcountry.com
http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-lithium-sleeping-bag-0-degree-down
(Sales person at REI said the price was going up in the spring to $629.00)
If you're looking for a 0F bag this is a great deal !
Billy
10% off on top if you use Active Junky brings it almost to $350. If I didn't have a $44 REI garage sale special I'd be pretty tempted myself!
There is a Brooks Range 0 degree down sleeping bag at STP for 439, but with a 30% coupon you can get for about 308. Possibly could get/use an even better coupon. Also a great deal with even just the 30% coupons.
Justin… it seems you are referring to the Brooks Range Alpini at STP…
with no EN rating and only 20.5 oz of 850 fill, I doubt that is a true 0 F bag…
Billy
You're most likely right. I just briefly skimmed it. The only way it could be a true 0 degree bag with 20.5 oz 850 down fill, is if they decided to put a lot more insulation on the top and a lot less on the bottom, but since it doesn't specify that it's best to assume that either STP or Brooks Range is off on their stats and ratings. Not unheard of with STP ime.
Brooks Range is the same company that advertised their Mojave jacket as having 9 oz of fill for about a year. They have since changed that spec to 6 oz of fill. See http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=68691&startat=40&id=BqVjRG57:98.207.18.22
Thanks for the heads up Richard–i wasn't aware of that.
Well, I took the plunge. I had a 40% off coupon, and I figure that since it’s from STP, I can return it reasonably easily if the bag isn’t up to snuff.
Ah, the Mojave incident. That put me completely off the Brooks Range brand.
Jim,
I stared at that Brooks range bag for over a month before taking the plunge myself. Well, rather, forcing my thru hiking partner to take the plunge instead. Much easier and cheaper for me that way. Anyways, here's to cautious optimism that Brooks range can deliver!
I purchased a Alpini 0F from Sierra Trading Post and they specs they listed were wrong. Here is the tag from mine. It actually has 28.9oz of fill for the regular length.
I also bought a brooks range alpini 0 off of STP after emailing Brooks Range.
here is the specs that I receieved from them:
– The Alpini 0 has 31oz of down, our Alpini 15 has 20.5oz of down.
The dimensions are:
Shoulder 61"
Hip: 48"
Feet: 40" –
I've had top level bags from Montbell, EE, etc and this is of the same quality. I'm definitely happy with the purchase
That wouldn’t be the first time that STP got the specs wrong. And it’s not like you can call and have someone check. The clerks don’t appear to have any access to the products.
The tag says 28.9 oz of fill. Brooks Range quotes 31 oz. Perhaps they later increased the fill? STP typically has gear that’s a few seasons old. I notice that the photo of the tag says “2012” on it.
Well, I’ll be cautiously optimistic here. Maybe it will wind up being more like a 10 or 15 degree bag, but still that’s not a bad deal for $264. I already have a 15 degree bag, so I’ll gear swap it or something if it’s not really a 0 degree bag.
The Brooks Range Alpini 0 degree bag I ordered from STP arrived. Not quite sure what to think.
The zero degree Alpini with 850 fill doesn’t look significantly more puffy than my fifteen degree Mtn Hardwear Phantom with 800 fill.
What's the loft on that orange popsicle, Jim? If it's much shy of 7", then there's some serious exaggeration going on in a certain marketing department. Again.
nm, probably was an inaccurate assessment.
What’s the loft on that orange popsicle, Jim? If it’s much shy of 7″, then there’s some serious exaggeration going on in a certain marketing department. Again.
The loft when laid on a flat surface, my living room floor, is about 5 to 5 1/2″. Maybe slightly more, but certainly not 7″.
So how does this work? Obviously more loft is better, but is there a good rule of thumb that correlates inches of loft to the rating of the bag?
I went by Western Mountaineering's measurements with their 850fp goose down:
40F = 3" loft
30F = 4" loft
20F = 5" loft
10F = 6" loft
0F = 7" loft
Of course there are other factors, such as the cut of the bag, its shell material, down fill power, boxwall vs sewn through construction, use of baffles, and the metabolism of the sleeper.
A calculation widely quoted is that, starting at 67F, every inch of loft (single layer) will add 18F warmth. Or rounded up, Rating (F) = 70 – (20 x loft). A zero degree bag will have 3.5" loft on top and bottom, or 7" total.
The outlier seems to be Jardine's formula, which states 100 – (40 * inches of loft) = Fahrenheit temp rating. Again, inches of loft is just a single layer. That may be what Brooks Range were going by, as it calculates that 5" loft (top and bottom) will get you a 0F bag.
Interesting. I should measure the loft of my Mountain Hardwear 15°F/-9°C bag and see if the rule of thumb applies. My 15° bag is reasonably well rated. The Brooks Range 0°F/-18°C Alpini bag is only slightly loftier.
The thing that bugs me about the Alpini is that it (with 850 down) seems denser than my 15° bag (with 800 down). It should be the opposite I would think. Obviously total weight would be higher with a 0°F/-18°C bag than a 15°F/-9°C bag, but it should feel, well, fluffy, right? Am I missing something here?
Per Stuart and Jim's loft vs rating discussion. My Marmot Pinnacle lists, and measures at, 6". The EN rating is 10F.
Hmm. Not sounding good here for the Alpini.
So, I’ve taken a harder look at my Brooks Range Alpini (mfg’s rating 0°F/-18°C) vs. my Marmot Phantom 15 (rating 15°F/-9°C).
My Marmot Phantom 15, depending on where I measure it is about 5 1/2″ (14 cm) in loft. The Brooks Range Alpini is maybe 6″ (~15 cm) in loft. It’s a bit more than the Phantom at the very least.
Based on Stuart’s “Down Loft Rules of Thumb”
40F = 3″ loft
30F = 4″ loft
20F = 5″ loft
10F = 6″ loft
0F = 7″ loft
I’m going to give the Alpini a rating of 10°F/-12°C. Something like that. But not 0°F/-18°C.
That said it seems like a good bag (other than it’s unrealistic manufacturer’s rating).
Thanks for taking the time to test and analyze this bag, Jim. It's real helpful to know.
In the old days, right before the sleeping bag sale at one store, I would see them using the vacuum cleaner. They would reverse the vacuum cleaner so that it was blowing warm air, then they aimed that into the head opening of the sleeping bag. They would let it blow for five minutes, and then move to the next sleeping bag.
They were getting an extra inch or so into the measurable loft. It was a bit temporary, but that didn't matter for sales.
–B.G.–
My Marmot lithium "long" has 29oz of 850fp goose down and 8" of loft, which seems to correspond well to: 0F = 7" loft
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