zpacks versus hyperlite mountain gear backpacks

I've had the Arc Blast for two vacation seasons now, max load about mid 20's. Works fine, no issues, my go to pack for summer use except for less gear weekend trips. I've heard the HMG packs are good, only read what I have seen posted here.
Duane

Having compared the two, I believe that the Windrider volume is not calculated using the front pocket. If you compare the two packs, the Windrider seems a bit larger (taller). Having said that, the Windrider now has a more robust fabric bottom (2 x 150D fabric) so some of the weight may have come from there. The compression straps are thicker and wider and the shoulder straps and belt fabric are 210D dyneema gridstop. So a bit of weight creep here and there.

I have owned both.

Obviously both HMG and ZPacks make really great gear.

My favorite is the Arc Zip which I spent three years co-designing with ZPacks, and is of course the regular Arc Blast that is a front panel loader.

You stated “capability to carry heavier loads” yet did not clarify what “heavier loads” is, so you are asking us to just take a shot in the air at really trying to answer your question.

From personal experience, the ZPacks Arc frame (blast/zip) is exceptional up until about the 16-pound / 7.2kg mark. You pretty much will not feel the backpack until you hit that weight range. From there up to the 24 pound mark you will start to feel the pack. Anything above that just hurts, due to the shoulder harness system that ZPacks uses is not all that comfy at heavier loads.

Also from personal experience, the HMG packs seemed a bit weighty at the sub 16 pound mark, something that always perplexed me. They start to really shine once you get above that weight level. For me, much above 28 or so pounds and I personally felt that the harness system just did not do a good enough job at shoulder strain reduction.

Both of these companies have one serious flaw in their pack design. They do not have true load distribution to hip belts. The ZPacks Arc Frame is one of the worst designs out there for load-to-hip weight distribution, as it does not even come close to properly attaching the harness system to the hip belt and thereby allowing weight to be distributed to the hip belt. The HMG with its two stays is not far behind.

I think, within the cottage industry pack designers, right now, the Six Moon Designs Fusion 50 / 65 are the best that is out there for taking on heavier weights and having good shoulder to hip distribution. Even better than anything from ULA in this regards. So if you are looking at dealing with loads in the 30+ pound / 13kg range, you might seriously consider adding the Fusion to your list of packs to consider.

wow, thanks for all your prompt replies….

yes, I didn't tell you the weights I was thinking about.

I recently did a trip for which I carried 1 week of food ( 10 pounds) and gear to withstand norwegian fall.
This can be rainy and temps to freezing.

My pack weighed 13 kg (28lbs) (mariposa, zpacks tent, pacer poles, phd sleeping bag, neo air etc) which I found quite heavy to walk long stretches with…. This is also about the max I want to walk with, up to say
Of course it got better every day (eating:-) but I found that the pack didn't distribute the weight to the hips…
I was also thinking of looking an the Unaweep, but that pack is really heavy, however, it says it's good for heavy loads.
I just don't know if it;s the weight itself or the distribution of the weight by the pack that's the problem!

I can't try out these packs in Europe, so I want to do the research this way.

What I'm really looking for is a pack that has a great suspension system, but a very light bag itself, with minimum frills…..

will check out the fusion right away!

"The HMG with its two stays is not far behind."

Any issue with load carrying ability at higher weights (you define that at 28 lbs) is the width and length of the hipbelt. HMG increased both measures for 2014 but they could be increased a bit more, in my opinion. In addition, the pack would excel with load lifters at higher loads.

With respect to the 2 stay comment, Mchale uses twin stays and the carry is superb over a wide range of loads. Perhaps you meant how the two stays are placed within the construct of the overall suspension and / or the stiffness of the stays.

I can't speak for the two packs you're asking about but will say that at 28lbs, I'd prioritize finding a pack that can transfer that load to your hips first and the actual weight of the pack second. You can certainly do this without committing to a 7lb pack.

I haven't had more than 25lbs in my ULA ohm but it handled the weight fine; it's rated for 30lbs. For the money, ULA is a great pack at a great price.

Brian Frankle founded ULA but is now with SMD. I've yet to carry one of their packs with any kind of a load but from what I could see at GGG last year, some of the best features of ULA's hipbelt are present with the SMD's hipbelt with a few improvements. How the weight is transferred is a completely different animal from ULA's packs altogether but looks promising. Again, just my casual observation as I've yet to put one of their packs through its paces.

I do have a ula ohm as well, but unfortunately the original with a fixed hip belt, which turned out a little too large for me.

It does carry weight well but I haven't tried it with 13 kg…..

Joe Valesko of Zpacks always reported that the Arc Blast or Blast models are comfortable at 25 pounds or below. Then the upper limit is 35 pounds.

–B.G.–

yes , that's possible without much food. it's the food that makes the weight!
and our cold wet winters, which sometimes make me not get away with a single walled tent…..
my light hilleberg unna weighs a whopping 2.1 kg, but is hurricane proof and freestanding…..

I'll see Ian's 25 lbs. in the Ohm and raise it 8. I had 33 in mine (out of necessity – first day, full load, 22 waterless miles of PCT sec. D). It carried great. I have the 2.0 and a belt that fits correctly.

I have the Ohm 2.0 newer version.
I found it a bit uncomfortable at 26.0 lbs.

I have a zPacks Arc Blast. I find it starts to get uncomfortable at 25 lbs

I would not want to carry more in either one of them.

For heavier loads up to about 32lbs I switch to my Osprey Exos 58… metal frame, about 2 lbs 5 oz stripped down a bit.

To some degree pack comfort is a subjective thing… different body shapes… different expectations of comfort… different discomfort tolerance… etc.

Billy

I'll echo much of what has been said here. I've a ridiculous number of packs (if only for a few days to try out). I'll try to post a youtube video at some point comparing various packs from cottage manufacturers. What I found is that packs are like shoes–you just have to try them on (loaded) to see which is more comfortable. At present, I own a HMG Southwest 3400 and a Zpacks Arc Blast, both from last summer. I haven't yet had a chance to use the Arc Blast, other than around my house. The Arc Blast feels amazingly light and seems like it would support a good deal of weight (I never go above 20 lbs or so, so for me it's a moot point).

Per my scales, I get the following measurements:

Arc Blast (52 L) = 17.9 oz including hipbelt pockets

HMG Southwest pack (55 L) = 29.8 oz (doesn't include any add-ons)

There's about a 13 oz difference or so when you factor in the Zpacks shoulder pouches, which I find to be a must for my style of hiking. Since the Zpacks pack is amazingly light, I really want to like the pack. Unfortunately, it just doesn't seem to fit me like the HMG Southwest pack does, which in size small fits me like a glove. Perhaps I need some more time with the Arc Blast–I just started using the HMG pack and it feels so comfortable that I've never stopped using it.

I wish that the HMG was about 6 oz lighter. I think the fabric in the HMG is significantly heavier than the fabric in the Arc Blast. (Joe always pushes the limits of weight by going with the absolute lightest fabric possible, which is a good thing if you are careful with your gear). Aside from the fabric weight, the design is quite different. The HMG is just a big sack, whereas the Zpacks is taller and skinner, more like an alpine climbing pack. As far as looks, I think the HMG wins. The white cuben contrasts really nicely with the grid Dyneema pattern that is reminiscent of Japanese traditional clothing — to me anyway. HMG just has that slick look–they appeared in GQ magazine after all. Joe's stuff is utilitarian and for the true gram counters. I love my Hexamid Solo, although the Ultamid in white cuben is a lovely sight to see…Well I digress here.

http://www.nielsenbrownoutdoors.com/2014/10/what-works-for-me-rucksacks-backpacks.html?m=1

Nielsen Brown posts a nice pack review addressing many of my issues…..

McHale packs look very interesting as well, being newly made to fit , but unfortunately he doesn't take orders from outside us….

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Marjolein you may have seen my piece on trying to find a light medium load hauler, similar kind of thinking process as Nielsen Brown's.

http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/the-search-for-the-perfect-pack/

Wow, what a lot of really helpful replies! It's so great to be part of this community…..

Great piece Alex, a lot of thought went into that…

The Unaweep is good for heavy loads. I wouldn't put ~30 pounds in that category, and it that's your normal max HMG sounds like a good option. The only exception might be if you're a small/light person. 30 pounds for you might, proportionally, be like 50 or 60 for me, and the Unaweep really comes into it's own above 40, and carries 80 as well as any pack can. If ~20 lbs is a normal load the Unaweep is overkill.

One minor gripe with my HMG Southwest is that the dyneema outer pockets are bit bulky. It kind of makes the pack bulge outwards excessively (and unnecessarily for me, since I don't put terribly bulky items back there). Any idea if the outer pocket can be removed and replaced with something lighter weight and less bulky? Or would this compromise the waterproofness of the pack?

I emailed HMG before about swapping the hip belts for the newer (2014) design, and they declined, stating that it would alter the integrity of the pack.

Just wanted to throw in a data point that I have carried 42lbs at the heaviest in my zpacks 60l arc blast, and while not fun it wasn't terrible either. I am 24 and reasonably fit. Just make sure you have it set up to have everything on the hip belt and are really careful loading and unloading it on your back. Basically you never want to haul it up with shoulder straps with such loads. Use the haul loop and one hand or thigh below it. I survived 4-5 days of carrying weights over 25lbs just fine, until my food was eaten up.

Comfort is subjective. One person may be comfortable carrying 15 lbs in [insert pack here] while another may be comfortable carrying 20 or 25 lbs in the same pack… but most people would probably agree if pack X can handle a given load better than pack Y or not (or- if the packs are similar enough it’ll just come down to personal preference).

Having said that, the Arc packs from ZPacks are pretty different than the HMG packs. I have only tried on an HMG Porter (fully loaded) and walked around camp with it… felt very good. I own an Arc Blast and use it as my primary pack. I don’t like putting more than 25 lbs in the Arc Blast. With 20 or less it carries great, 20-25 lbs is the “transition comfort” range for me, and above that it gets uncomfortable. I also feel like it doesn’t quite have the volume it claims (my old 55L pack could hold as much or more). This could be in part due to the top closure needing at least a roll down or two to keep the velcro closed.

I have been (and still currently) considering a Windrider 4400 for a winter pack, and for family trips where I need more volume. I think for heavier and bulkier loads the HMG is the way to go.

For me the Arc Blast is a great pack and has been more like a direct upgrade to my GG Gorilla pack (more rigid, better load carrying capability, lighter, more volume). I won’t be using it as a winter pack though. After trying last winter I didn’t like the result too much.

My buddy Adam started off his PCT thru hike with an Arc Blast and it became very uncomfortable for him by the time he was reaching the Sierra. I helped him procure an HMG Windrider pack on short notice to swap out, and he carried it the rest of the way to the Northern Terminous. His review of the pack is here: http://danceswithangiosperms.blogspot.com/2014/09/hmg-windrider-4400-review.html

edited to add: also, don’t expect either the ZPacks or HMG packs to keep your gear dry in wet weather. Supplement with a cuben pack cover.

I'll throw in here, I am the Adam who Jacob mentioned. In my experience the arc blast is fine if you keep it under 25 lbs, over that for any length of time and it starts to hurt in the shoulders. It also seems smaller than it should be, I haven't attempted to measure the volume but the 60 liter version I have feels more like 50-55 liters. I did a review of the Arc Blast on my blog, which I am having trouble copy/pasting from my phone but google: dances with angiosperms arc blast review and it will come up.

I am going to put a plug in for the HMG, it may be heavier but it will be more comfortable, more durable and you will have more volume. Nothing wrong with the arc blast but I think for what you are looking for, the HMG will be a better choice.

I've had the Arc Blast out in steady drenching rain twice now, each several hours, with no liner or cover, and inside my pack was bone dry. I must be lucky. The zpacks hip belt pockets did leak, though, I suspect through the zipper.

And I agree with others on comfort — up to 20 lbs rides great, 20-24 still pretty good but start to notice the weight, 24-28 still comfortable but you definitely can feel the weight, and not sure if I've had it much over 28 because it feels like that is the comfort limit for me.

I just completed the CDT with the Southwest 3400 (Windrider with nylon pockets) and I loved it. It carried 35 pounds adequately, but was comfortable up to 30. My average pack weight was in the 20's. The cuben hybrid material kept my gear dry and was durable over the 5 month hike.

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