Headlamps and Batteries

I don't understand your last chart at all, because I use a Zebralight H501 with lithium primary AA for a total weight of less than 54 grams.

–B.G.–

zebralight H52 weight …

2.9 oz (80 gram) with an Eneloop AA and headband

http://www.zebralight.com/H52-AA-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_131.html

weight of eneloop rechargeable AA ~27-30g (pro weights more)

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop%20AA%20BK-3MCC%201900mAh%20(White)%20UK.html

weight of lithium disposable AA 15g (energizer ultimate)

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Energizer%20Ultimate%20Lithium%20AA%20UK.html

to get 5 Wh out of rechargeable batteries … youll need 2-3 eneloop AAs

weight of zebralight H52 (no bat) + 3 eneloop AAs (2.4 Wh each) = ~130g

weight of zebralight H52 (no bat) + 2 eneloop Pro AAs (3.06 Wh each) = ~109g

;)

Exactly! You are talking about 80 grams or more, and I am talking about 54 grams. I strive for a lower weight.

–B.G.–

bob

were talking about rechargeable batteries here … especially for nightime intensive activities where you wont be going off and buying 1-2+ AA lithiums per night … i addressed the fact that lithium disposables are lighter for the power at the start

and where you wont be throwing all those disposable lithiums away

once you get into rechargeable, especially for lumen and duration intensive uses, again where you wont be buying 1-2 disposable bats per night … the "lightness" of certain AA lamps is an illusion

;)

Eric, that’s a nice battery chart (1st chart). I like those AA lithiums.
In the end, I just look at weight, brightness, and time. I usually do up to 4-day trips. I plan on roughly 2hours/night of use; except in summer I rarely need a light.

Zebralight 502 does fine with no spare battery.
Lamp: 29g
Headband 23 g
AA lithium 15 g (get longer life than Eneloops)
Total: 67 g (2.4oz)

And the H52 is similar in weight.

It may be useful if your last 2 charts added AA lithium.

May everyone see the light,
-Barry

So, the real subject is Headlamps and Rechargeable Batteries, not Headlamps and Batteries.

I, for one, don't buy 1-2+ AA lithium primary batteries per night. I put in one fresh one at the beginning of the summer season, and it lasts me for five or eight trips that year. A good regulated headlamp will effectively use a AA lithium primary almost right to the very end, so there is no need to swap them out like you would with a rechargeable.

Besides, you are probably at a higher latitude, so you get more hours of summer sunlight per day. We need to see that computed in your chart.

–B.G.–

barry

the headlamp comparison graphs are really mean for folks who use their lamps for hours on end with a decent amount on the higher modes …

ie night climbing, scrambling, biking, descending off mountains, alpine starts, etc …. all at night for hours on end

for night climbing i easily blow through 5 Wh+ (equivalent to 1-2 AA lithiums) in a few hours …

for folks who rarely use their lamps, and for shorter periods on lower modes, lithiums make sense as they dont self discharge as much as rechargeables, especially if you barely use em for months at a time

but for constant heavy use, rechargeables can be topped up leaving you less likely to have to change the bats in the middle of the night … and cost much less

not to mention not having to throw away those lithium bats

spending 5-10$ a night for 5+ Wh every night i went night climbing … why thats a cheap dinner there!!!

as requested … along with the cost (calculated at 5$ per Energizer AA Ultimate Lithium at Best Buy/Canadian Tire, perhaps the best around)

;)

So, the real subject is Headlamps and Rechargeable Batteries, not Headlamps and Batteries.

Besides, you are probably at a higher latitude, so you get more hours of summer sunlight per day. We need to see that computed in your chart.

nitpick much bob? =P

i take it you dont do this much then?

notice my headlamp lighting the way for the leader as well as his headlamp on …

you burn through a AA lithium at 150+ lumens in a few hours on yr zebralight doing that

a good AA regulated headlamp will use an eneloop almost right to the end, not just lithiums

or even alkalines on more moderate loads !!!

if all yr doing is using the headlamp is low mode use in camp and the very occasional moderate short use for an hour or two a few times a year … then sure disposable bats make sense

for intense nightly use, youll be able to afford a new headlamp after a week or two with the money you spend on lithiums !!!

as to "summer" we arent talking about dusk here … but climbing throughout the night … and winter activities where it gets dark around 6-7 pm

;)

I don't use light very much. Maybe 1/2 Wh per trip.

Photon light with coin lithium battery is sufficient. 1 ounce.

Except the light is pretty feeble so I just use 3AAA LED which lasts maybe 10 trips. 3 ounces.

I take a Photon as a backup.

Most of us here are sane enough not to go for night climbing. Most of us here are conventional backpackers with underlying UL currents.

Headlamps get used on low intensity for late night camp chores, and only sporadically for trail hiking at night. Once in a while, somebody will get lost at night. That is when it is nice to have a very high intensity light or maybe one with a strobe/blinking mode as an eye-catching signal.

–B.G.–

I suppose something bad could happen at night and I'de want to walk out immediately.

Wh is a meaningless point of comparison between lights with different emitter types, or even optics, if their beam profiles differ significantly.
Unless that Tikka RXP has a XM-L2 emitter, your numbers are all WAY off.

Most of us here are sane enough not to go for hiking in the rain. Most of us here are fair weather backpackers with underlying UL currents.

Rain jackets get used on low intensity for camp chores in the rain, and only sporadically for trail hiking in the rain. Once in a while, somebody will get lost in the rain. That is when it is nice to have a good quality rain jacket that doesnt leak

yet we all talk about rain jackets =P

many folks here use eneloops or other such rechargeables

heres an example

My preliminary experience with the H52Fw is that its operation is not as intuitive, as say, a Petzl. Read the instructions to understand what is happening when you click the button through various modes, or hold the button down through various mode cycling.

Second, I’m discovering much shorter battery life (even with the manufacturer-recommended Sanyo 2000 mAh Eneloop AA battery) at the suggested outputs than what the manufacturer is claiming. This is based on circumstantial field observations, and not on a controlled test environment, so take this observation with a grain of salt.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/flash_reviews_no_1_jordan.html

Wh is a meaningless point of comparison between lights with different emitter types, or even optics, if their beam profiles differ significantly.
Unless that Tikka RXP has a XM-L2 emitter, your numbers are all WAY off.

watt hours simply gives the amount of power over time a battery provides

how efficiently it uses that power is a different question

and this is different with EVERY light, even with the same emitters

however the sun god is on the side of big numbers to misquote some famous general … for instance theres i no way on gods green earth that a quality AA headlamp will outlast a quality 18650 one at roughly the same illumination

and the simple fact is that li-on and lithium bats are MUCH more weight efficient that "regular" NiMH ones

;)

Thanks Eric for putting this together. I'll have to re-read through some of this to make sure I've got my head wrapped around all of the variables but I get the point you've made here of considering wh vs mah. I use a few flashlights at work, my volunteer gig, and backpacking. I'm debating switching to 18650s across the board to cover my recreational and professional needs with the hopes of simplifying and sending fewer batteries to the bin.

"Most of us here are sane enough not to go for hiking in the rain. Most of us here are fair weather backpackers with underlying UL currents."

Eric, you mis-quoted me.

–B.G.–

Eric, you mis-quoted me.

absolutely guilty bob =P

ian …

im moving more towards the USB rechargeable/18650 format myself … 18650 bats are currently the most weight and cost efficient rechargeable due to the scale of production … they are used in everything from laptop bats, to power packs, to e-cig, to tesla cars … so they arent going anywhere

the runtime a 18650 bat can provide is just sickening compared to NiMH lamps of even a few years ago

fro example the Fenix HL55 post regulated runtimes of 30 hours at a moderate level (50+ lm) and 10h at a decently high level (150+ lm), not to mention a ~900 lm burst capacity for those times u need to find the descent/trail

a 3400 mAh (45-50g) provides the same power as 4 AA eneloops (120-130g)

weve already seen it with other activities such as biking and running … but the confluence of more efficient power sources and high power LED emitters will make nightime activities in the outdoors MUCH more popular

;)

I wish headlamps had a lower light/longer lifetime setting

For most of my use, even the dimmest setting is way too bright

headlamp manufacturers focus on having a brighter setting

It doesn't look like representative of real life. I don't usually hike with a spare battery, not to mention more than one.

One of the flashlights I'm asking Santa for that I'd use at work is the FourSevens Maelstrom MMR. This flashlight has a built in charger so all I'd have to do is plug it in my vehicle to top it off. Of course you have to use their proprietary 18650 battery to use this feature but there's a simple mod that can be done to this flashlight to use regular 18650 batteries although I'd lose the ability to use the built in re charger.

I think building a headlamp with similar capabilities would have some appeal for outdoorsy people. Now, if they could not only offer the built in re charger, but regulated output via USB to charge other gadgets like an inreach, cameras, phones, whatever, that would be slick!

I wish headlamps had a lower light/longer lifetime setting

and here is where we all come out screaming the zebralight chant … rah-rah-rah !!!

Light Output (runtimes)
High: H1 1090 Lm (PID, approx 2 hr) or H2 660 Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / 350 Lm (3.9 hrs) / 160 Lm (11 hrs)
Medium: M1 70 Lm (30 hrs) or M2 32 Lm (66 hrs) / 12 Lm (172 hrs)
Low: L1 3.7 Lm (16 days) or L2 0.4 Lm (2.5 months) / 0.06 Lm (4.6 months) / 0.01 Lm (5.5 months)

http://www.zebralight.com/H600-Mk-II-18650-XM-L2-Headlamp-Cool-White_p_130.html

as do many of these chinese brand lamps

or if you want something more convetional (that you can buy at MEC/REI/LLBean with the no questions asked warranty) the new petzl tikka XPs have a 5 lumen setting (claimed 100h regulated)

;)