Carbohydrate supplement source

http://www.amazon.com/LiveLong-Nutrition-Palatinose-Supplement-Ounce/dp/B00IK6JIYK/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1413223841&sr=1-1&keywords=palatinose

Ben – brilliant, thanks very much.

I did not find either of those with my searches.

Ed,

Is there any reason you can't use Maltodextrin?

Should be far more available.

Dave

No reason – just used to Palatinose/oats.

I'll take a look for Maltodextrin too if it is popular over there; cheers.

It says the Palatinose is twice as sweet as sugar. You might want to experiment with what your stomach and palette can handle as well. Perhaps alternate between the Palatinose and Instant Oats and Maltodextrin.

I have only used malto. It was popular on long distance runners in the eighties (nineties?) I think.
I am totally ok with sweet food but find I can only handle so much of it day in day out.
The good thing about malto is it is virtually tasteless. You can mix it in anything and eat or drink it with the sole benefit of added calories.

I use it on long days fast packing and trail running where I used to get stomach cramps and being unable to eat enough calories. I found out on a run up and down Mt Fuji that after I long cannot drink Coca Cola, various sports drinks, or even water I can still drink green tea. So now I put malto in my green tea and hydrate and get fuel at the same time.

I try to eat as much normal food (dried fruit mostly) early on, and then when my stomach can't handle it, I switch to Malto only.

Not a sports nutrition expert (at all!) – and not saying you should use it in the same manner as I do, etc etc.
Just sharing my experience. Perhaps you can use some of it for your activity.

Never heard of the Instant Oats, will see if I can try that out over here.
Have fun.

In case it is of interest –
I realise there are different ways of calculating how many carbs you need, or rather, can handle or absorb, and it also depends on the individual. Nevertheless I use the following guide line that seems to work really well for me:

'Maximum' Carb absorption: 1.2gr/Kg bodyweight/hr.
Kcal = Carb (gram) x 4.

E.g. I am 72Kg.
1.2gr x 72Kg = 86.4gr carb/hr.
86.4×4 = 345.6Kcal/hr.

Maltodexterin is 380Kcal per 100g.
So add 91gr. of Malto to 1L of water, if I plan to drink the 1L/hr, and not take other food.
I prepare little packages of 45gr. for half litres of green tea, or for whole litres of green tea when I am supplementing with other food.

Has worked amazing for me, I have never stood half way up a mountain anymore shaking because I have no energy left while unable to eat. This is of course when I'm trying to push my system and go fast. Like I said, it all might or might not apply to what you like to do. Hope it helps nonetheless.

And lastly, from a thread just above or below this one:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/how-exercise-could-erode-teeth/380851/

On how exercise could erode teeth (independent of sweet sport drinks):

"Everybody’s spit had pretty neutral pHs when they were just sitting around the lab, jawing on some wax. But, and this is where it gets interesting, athletes saliva had a significantly higher pH (meaning it was more basic, or alkaline) during the workout. They also produced less saliva overall.

There’s a type of protein in saliva, the researchers explain, that is thought to help prevent tooth erosion. The link between working out, saliva pH, and tooth decay, could be because the more alkaline saliva messes with that protein’s protective instincts. The researchers didn’t find any associations with sports drinks."

Ito Jakuchu said, "So add 91gr. of Malto to 1L of water, if I plan to drink the 1L/hr, and not take other food.
I prepare little packages of 45gr. for half litres of green tea, or for whole litres of green tea when I am supplementing with other food."

====================

I do something similar to this, but make a concentrated 1-L bottle (about 100g malto with water) and sip it over the course of 3-4 hours. Even concentrated, the malto is barely perceptible in taste. I also mix in electrolytes, so that overpowers the malto taste anyway. I could make it stronger but my body seems to want something more substantial between meals. So I throw in a trail snack mid-morning and mid-afternoon. My main source of hydration is plain water from a hydration bladder.

I experimented to see how concentrated I could make the maltodextrin, thinking I could make it work out of gel flasks. 50g (1/4 cup) dissolved completely in 125 mL of water, and it was still not a "gel" but was getting syrupy. Kind of a gross mouthfeel, actually, but it worked.

Maltodextrin is easily found in the U.S., in small quantities (beer homebrewing supply) up to big bulk bags from food industry suppliers (google "maltodextrin 50 lb"). Search for it on Amazon to find brands you can also get at brick & mortar nutrition shops, or for convenient sized packaging you can have shipped to your resupply stops.

One downside to the malto is the preparation. Even in my wind-free kitchen that powder seems to find a way onto places other than the inside of the bottle. No matter how careful I am, the outside of the bottle gets sticky. In bear country I would do the bottle prep well away and downwind from my other gear.

Another downside is the bulk. To get a lot of calories you'll need to carry a lot of powder and on long stretches between resupply that can take up a significant percentage of your food volume.

Both

That is really useful – thanks very much.

The sweetness does not really impact on me that much, the tooth decay does. Saliva protects teeth – my salivary glands don't work at all on one side and are a bit zapped the other side…hence the search for non-tooth adverse supplements.

I do realise it might be a pain getting the supplies – but interesting to hear about Maltodextrin availability; will do some research. Thanks.

Mixing is annoying…it does get everywhere. Tend to use a Nalgene canteen, but wide-mouth soda bottles work too. Delivery via a Platty or similar…I gave up on trying to empty plastic bags of sticky powders into bottles a loooooong time ago.

Thanks.

"Sweetness" is a physical perception of taste buds reacting to some chemical.

How liquid/slurry/gel foods affects your teeth is a function of how it, temporarily, 1) changes your mouth chemistry 2) and provides a medium for bacteria. (Food that sticks to teeth provides a more long term opportunity for problems.)

So, "eat", then flush your mouth with clear water.

This issue is one rational for keeping "phood" and water in separate bottles.

+1 on rinsing. It may not be a perfect solution, but it undoubtedly helps until you can take more deliberate steps to clean your teeth.

So in my case — not an exact science by any means — I sip a couple ounces of the energy drink every 15 minutes or so, then wash it down with about 2-3x that amount of plain water, depending on how much I'm sweating.

As for a dispensing bottle, I use one of those 32-oz. green Gatorade bottles with the orange cap (OK, I fibbed a little on the 1-L bottle in my previous post). It's wide-mouthed, has a passive valve to keep from spilling as you walk, is surprisingly light, and slides easily into even narrower side pockets.

+3 on rinsing. When I wear a running vest I have two front bottles of fuel, and a Salomon soft flask on my hips with water.

The comment about the lack of sweetness of Malto was more for just taste reasons. I just can't stand anything sweet after a whole day of dried fruit and gels, and need something savoury. The Malto since it is tasteless doesn't cause such a sweet overkill during the day.

I think Malto should be very easy to get through Amazon, you could have it delivered to the same post offices you send your resupply to. I got my huge back of malto here in Japan through Amazon as well. It is apparently very common in the food industry. Frank is right, I can imagine on a through hike it is quite bulky.. But then so is other food.

For calories to weight, the Malto actually scores better than a Cliff Bar, Trek Bar, dried figs or ramen. Only the muesli, high fat nuts and nut butters etc. have a better calorie to weight ratio.

Again, take it for what it is (a quick personal comparison I did):

"So in my case — not an exact science by any means — I sip a couple ounces of the energy drink every 15 minutes or so, then wash it down with about 2-3x that amount of plain water, depending on how much I'm sweating."

+1 I also mix my drink at double strength, so the extra few ounces of water brings it to about the proper concentration for efficient absorption.

Similarly, I carry one quart bottle of full-strength drink, which means that it is double the concentration that I normally drink. Then I carry one quart bottle of plain water. I can drink out of one or the other or alternate. Plus, I always have that plain water in case I need to irrigate an open wound or something.

Exactly which drink it is that I carry depends on which one I have the most of at home, and which one I want to use up.

–B.G.–

Some most useful comments and tips…thank you..

Finding an affordable way of getting supplements to resupply points is something I'll need to work on.

Often with the relatively small-scale trips in Scotland I do nutrition does not really matter…there is fried fish at the end…calorie heaven.

But on a five-month trip I need to get my act together.

Oddly (?) although it is part of my daily 'dental care' regimen for the last six years I had not thought of how to work it on the trail…

A simple 'swish/rinse' routine makes sense (tenacity willing).

My naivety still knows no bounds; thanks.

"…I gave up on trying to empty plastic bags of sticky powders into bottles a loooooong time ago."

You might try this technique: Shift the malto away from one of the bottom corners of the bag, then cut a diagonal piece out of that corner so you have an aperture ~1" across. Voila! You now have a funnel to pour the malto into your wide mouth sports drink bottle or Nalgene bottle. At altitude, you may have to open the zip lock baggie and reseal to equalize the pressure, allowing the malto to be shifted away from the corner you intend to cut. I've been doing this with good success for several years now. The same technique works with Perpetuem packets as well.

Thanks Tom – I'll give that a try.

Looks like you've been getting some good trips in this season – some great shots.

The "use the container as a funnel" technique is something I've been doing with my afternoon drink snack/protein recovery drink on longer trips. I prep a double Nido dry milk serving and two chocolate Carnation Instant Breakfasts together in a plastic baggie. The bottom corner gets cut off to turn the baggie into a funnel when I mix it into my wide-mouth Gatorade bottle. Works like a charm, except in high winds (as all powders are a pain to work with in).

Hope it helps!

I do this too, but still get a somewhat sticky bottle.

OTOH my biggest mess is from scooping powder into the ziplocs in the first place.

John – it does, thanks…

The Carnation Instant Breakfast helps too – it might seem natural for US residents, but I don't know anything about this sort of food availability; on the Colorado Trail finding stuff to eat outside of the 'normal' freeze-dried regimen was a steep learning curve for me…as I have to be picky.

I am also picky – I like nice food!

"Thanks Tom – I'll give that a try."

I hope it works for you. As noted below, performing the operation out of the wind is critical.

"Looks like you've been getting some good trips in this season – some great shots."

Thanks, Ed. I'm glad you enjoyed them. It was, indeed, a most excellent season. I feel very fortunate things turned out as well as they did.

"OTOH my biggest mess is from scooping powder into the ziplocs in the first place"

Use a wide mouth canning funnel to guide the powder into the ziplocs. No muss, no fuss, no bother. :))

malto will have varying degree of sweetness based on its DE number. Also, not all Malto is the same. I have used both agglomerate and powder and will never use powder again.

See http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=72290