Down bag in SE Alaska?

My thoughts, for what they are worth:

Down is far warmer than synthetic, if dry.
Condensation inside the shell is your worry – and that applies to both down and synthetic.
A bivy bag is only going to make the condensation problem worse under many of the conditions you will meet.
Using two layers: a quilt and an over-quilt, will normally confine any condensation in the over-quilt, leaving the inner bag dry and warm. (Been there, used that.)
If it is really cold, a VBL will protect your down.

Now one other thought for you. I gather from your comments that you expect to be earning a living while you are outside. But you will not be going for 48 days with contact with a base of some sorts, surely? In that case, can I suggest you seriously consider having two sets of down bags/quilts. Swap them over every time you come to base (or whatever), and have whoever is looking after the base dry out the damp one in between your visits. Happy is the camper with a dry down bag.

Can you afford two sets of bags? Well, consider tham as tools of the trade (for you), and claim them on your next tax return. Seriously.

Cheers

Use a well ventilated shelter with good coverage. Bring a down bag warmer that you think you need to compensate for wetness.

My experience is with a flat tarp but I've always been able to dry out my summerlite by body heat. But I mostly deal with dry air, not a lot of humidity, even when it's raining.

When my bag has been too wet, I've set my tarp lean-to style with a fire in front (at least two full steps to avoid sparks) and threw on a big few logs before I went to sleep. That will warm up the surrounding area and give you that extra boost to dry the bag.

Roger … So you're an expert on US Federal income taxes, huh?

My son works as a camp counselor over the summer at Point Reyes National Seashore – which is not as wet as SE Alaska but it is very humid and foggy almost every night. Condensation there is the worst I've ever experienced, and it is every night. They don't let the kids bring down bags, only synthetic. And SE Alaska is much wetter than that because it has that same coastal humidity plus lots of rain. A down bag is going to get gradually damper and damper and you'll never get it really dry in that climate. If I were going to spend time in SE Alaska I'd go synthetic and make my life easy. Yes it will be a little heavier but you're not talking about a sub-zero bag.
But be prepared to get a new bag every year, because with that level of use one year is all you'll get out of a synthetic bag.

Oh, and forget the bivy, it will just make things worse. Bag liner won't help either. The problem in that climate is that with the humidity so high the dewpoint is practically at your skin, so you'll have condensation inside the insulation for sure. If you get high enough into the mountains to get into sub-freezing temperatures then you can go with a VBL liner, but down low that isn't going to work because it's too warm.

http://bucktrack.com/Alaska_Survival_Journal.html

Camping in a SE AK rain forest for 70 days, with a non-DWR down sleeping bag, from 6/30/14 – 9/8/14 – absolutely no problems using down insulation.

August 1, 2014

…Even in the rainiest, dampest weather I sleep warm and dry every night. I have dry sleeping clothes which I don’t wear in the rain. My body heat drives the moisture out of my down bag."…

September 8, 2014

…2nd hardest thing: the wet conditions. Everything that could rust, did so. I did as much gun cleaning in 70 days as I usually do in 10 years! The threads on my pressure canner corroded so I had to use every trick I could think of to turn stuck knobs to seal it and open it. Mold grew on some items, like my ball cap and my wallet…. but still no problems with his non-DWR down bag.

Buck is a forum member and may choose to elaborate on this summary of his experience.

I'm sure several have tried down vs synthetic in the field in that area.

Pretty much everyone agrees that down is about 10-12 degrees warmer for a 20 degree bag rating, and packs into 1/3 of the space.

Down also absorbs moisture from the air, and if you are in a 90% humidity environment (like I am) there is no way to dry the bag out unless you take 6 hour break in the sun at mid day to let the sun heat up the bag (the black lining absorbs heat best). As a result, the down looses about 3 degrees of its temperature rating every day.

The synthetic also gets damp but doesn't loose loft and as a result only loses about 3 degrees of warmth over the entire week, but you'll need a 20 liter bigger pack for a -20 degree synthetic bag vs down.

For a week long trip, you can compensate with a 10-12 degree warmer bag. For a 6 week trip, you'll need to take a 6 hour break in the sun to dry out the bag at the end of each week.

I know something about US federal taxes – and Roger's advise is spot on.

Work tools and uniforms are fully deductible on the 1040 form. It's not an itemized deduction, so it's not just a percentage of the cost either.

Thanks for all the comments.

@Roger-The multiple bags and tax advice is solid. I'm not sure if I can afford that many bags though at this time.

I followed Buck's trip and found his insight on gear useful. However, I don't think the organization has fires often because of LNT.

So I think I could make the down work, but I am leaning towards the synthetic just for the ease of use. A couple of instructors for the company have made down work in the past but the vast majority use synthetic.

Like several others on this thread I have used a down bag in SE Alaska with no major issues. I spent 2 months working on a contract timber cruising job on Prince of Wales Island and used a down bag every night while there. It lost a bit of loft the first few days and then settled into a steady-state loft. I would squeeze the damp air from the bag every morning and air it occasionally as well during gaps in the rain.

In my experience, SE Alaska is not as humid as is the East Coast US. Yes, it rains a lot there, nearly 200" per year in Ketchikan for example, but without the wet blanket humidity I recall from my Army days in the south. A down bag will be useless if it gets water soaked but that won't happen unless the bag gets immersed in water or gets rained on.

So it looks like the majority here seems like down would be just fine. So for example, if I use my down quilt and take the precautions not to get it wet by rain, rivers etc. I will likely just experience some dampness on the inside of the bag from body condensation?

Another option would be a down bag with a synthetic over quilt.
There is a lot of data on Bpl advocating this approach.

A 50f syntheic quilt weighs about 13oz and would add 10f of warmth to a down bag while keeping it dry.

"I know something about US federal taxes – and Roger's advise is spot on.

Work tools and uniforms are fully deductible on the 1040 form. It's not an itemized deduction, so it's not just a percentage of the cost either."

Taxes are something I know a little about too.

I'd need to know more specifics about the OP's case but the US Tax Court recently denied a deduction for a sleeping bag claimed by a taxpayer, Thomas G. Nolder, as a business expense.

The sweeping statement that the purchase by the OP of a sleeping bag is deductible as a business expense is not helpful nor is it accurate. It may be deductible but none of us, nor Roger, is in possession of enough facts to be able to draw that conclusion.

T.C. Summary Opinion 2012-50

May 29, 2012.

THOMAS G. NOLDER, Petitioner v. COMMISSIONER OF INTERNAL REVENUE, Respondent

Docket No. 27414-10S.

Hire a CPA and ask. They've earned their pay saving me money over the years. I have to buy gear for work all the time; some of it's deductible and some isn't.

I've been in some humid environments but not for 48 days with a down sleeping bag. Some members here dry out their sleeping bags by throwing hot water bottles in them. Haven't tried that yet but worth searching here in the forums.

Andrew Skurka’s Alaska-Yukon Expedition BASIC INFO,GEAR & SUPPLIES,WRITINGS, PHOTOS & VIDEOS.

It sounds like you will be doing some kind of guiding or outdoor ed. It so lucky you! IF you are taking a bunch of greenhorns out on trips chances are you will be way more fit then they will be and your days of hiking/paddling will be fairly short by your standards. But after the hiking is over you'll be spending your evenings helping with cooking, showing some city slicker how to stake down a tent etc. This will keep you busy.
If that was my situation I would look at whether the weight and bulk saved was worth it (given the shorter days) and whether the potential hassle of taking care of down (and the expense).

Just my 2 cents but I also love my down quilt.

If you are out 48 days at a time you might be wearing out a synthetic sleeping bag every season, something to consider as well, I'm sure you know down last a lot longer.

In all honesty, this line of work does not bring a lot of income. My income taxes will be minimal to around non-existent so I'm not too concerned about writing off equipment. But I do appreciate the advice.

Thanks Link, I've looked at that before. Besides his time on the Lost Coast, he really wasn't in the same type of environment for a significant period of time. So I'm not sure how much I should factor his choices in.

Ian- I've used hot water bottles to dry out a synthetic bag, but haven't had the experience with down before.

Luke- Yes, outdoor ed it basically is. The travel distance will be fairly short each day. You guys should see the recommended gear list! Anyways, appreciate the advice.