Zpacks 10 deg. To Replace WM Ultralite and Versalite?

I would stick with the Ultralite. For me, it was always comfortable down to about 15F so you could easily push it 5 more degrees with clothes assuming you sleep similarly. If you we're starting from scratch and had neither bag I would be more inclined to recommend the Zpacks bag as its slightly lighter and I like the non-hood design better.

One other thing, the WM build quality is much better than Zpacks. May not make a difference to you. Their bag won't fall apart or anything, but you can definitely tell the difference when both products are side by side.

Ryan

I used to own a WM Ultralite and sold it for a quilt. The quilt I got instead, a Katabatic Alsek, has 12.4 oz of down. After 25+ nights in both the Alsek and the WM Ultralite, I decided that they were very nearly exactly the same warmth. From the Zpacks website, the Long/Regular 10F quilt has 14.7 oz, so my educated guess is it's a little bit warmer than the Ultralite and not quite as warm as the Versalite.

"The Ultralite I love but would like to have a bag that I can push just slightly further toward the extremes of three seasons."

A cheaper option you might consider is to send your Ultralite to WM and ask them to add 2 oz of overfill( more if they'll agree). At $16/oz plus shipping, it would be a lot cheaper and bring you down into that 10-15 degree temperature range.

Thank you guys for the thoughtful replies. I'm still undecided. :-/ I'm leaving for trip in two weeks so I really must make a decision very soon if I want the zpacks. I spoke to Joe and he said they could get it to me in time… No doubt these are both great bags.

Good idea on the overfill. Though, I doubt I have time to get that done in two weeks.

Anyway, I'm thinking…

I switched from my WM versalite regular to a zpacks 10 degree.
I love the weight savings. It feels slightly less warm….however the biggest sacrifice to me is the extra wiggle room and hood. Not nearly as snugly as the versalite…

That's said….In my case it saved 8oz so it was worth it….
Wow…maybe I am a gram geek…..

Christopher, The fact that the Zpacks, even the Wide, would be a little tighter than the Versalite is actually a plus. I've always felt like my Versalite is a little too wide and doesn't keep my quite as warm as it could if it were a little tighter. But yeah, it is anything but restrictive. And there's plenty of room to throw on a down jacket in the bag without any worry of compressing the down.

I don't get how everyone manages to stay comfortable in those temps. My wife and I both have Ultralights with ovefill and we have taken then down to 25 and wake up freezing while wearing merino leggings, merino tee, merino jumper, merino socks.
My wife even slept in a 2lb down jacket and was cold.
We thought it must just be the Neo Air mats but even car camping with Luxury Maps we can get cold if it dips below freezing.

Benen

I've spent a lot of nights in the Ultralite and have only been chilly a handfull of times. I have no idea what the temperatures were when that happened.

I think a lot has to do with how much I've eaten before bed, how tired I am, the ventilation of the tent I'm in, and many of other factors.

Benen, staying warm is an art.

The two biggest changes I made that took me from always cold to a veritable furnace had nothing to do with my sleeping bag.

First I made sure I stayed hydrated and ate more than "hunger" informed me, preferably with lots of protein and fat. Keeping my metabolism fueled for 6+ hrs is not easy when the temperature dips.

Second, I got a warmer pad setup. Moving from sleeping on a half pad with a backpack for legs to a full and well insulated air pad (xlites, downmats, etc) made a HUGE difference.

Those two changes turned me from freezing in 50F weather to sleeping fine at altitude in fleeces and a bivy around freezing. WORLD of difference. My WM UL20 used to be good to freezing and now I never use it as I burn up if it isn't below freezing!

had a versalite, and currently also own the highlite, i think it is (light blue w/black int).
as far as the versalite, for fun'r trips, i replaced it with an Apache DL, and could not be happier.
all but perfect for northern alaska and canada in the summer, and more water resist then the Highlite.

cheers,
v.

Cheers Dustin!

I'll give it a go this weekend. Temps will only get down to around 35-40 though but I should be able to get an idea.
It makes sense, I'm always baking when I get into bed for the first few hours and then can wake up cold even when the temperature is similar.
My wife suffers much more than I do so hopefully I can get her to sleep warm too!

Benen

Benen,
Although I hesitate to do this in bear country, when I think I may get cold in the night, I keep a high calorie food bar with me when I go to bed, hanging the rest of my food in a bear bag. Around 3 AM, I nearly always wake up a little cold so I eat the food bar, warm right back up for a couple more hours of sleep.

Ironically I learned this trick when I lived in an uninsulated house in Maine when I was in college. In the winter I slept on top of my bed in my down sleeping bag. I would cook up a baked potato in the microwave before I went to bed and leave it on my night stand. When I got cold, I'd eat the baked potato and go back to bed. Fortunately I have "made it in life"…I now live in an insulated house with central heat and air!

Haha. Classic. Sounds like a great idea. I'll definitely remember it when it gets cold. Actually excited to try it now haha.

As a side/stomach sleeper the separate hood/balaclava combo is a game changer, I roll around a lot and it is nothing short of amazing. Also in the warmer months when I don't need a hood it's awesome to just leave it at home. Or if its a cool morning the ability to wear the hood around camp is nice too, it's super versatile. I'd never go back to a hooded bag now.

EDIT: okay, I still use a hooded bag… but it's rated to -40F and dedicated to my winter trips. :)

I've had several of the WM bags over the years, including the Versalite.

I don't think they even compare to the warmth of my long/wide 10 degree Zpacks bag. The 10 degrees is VERY conservative, and the bag has gotten me into the teens often without even a hint of chilliness. I froze in the WM bags (Ultralight, Versalight).

Get the ZPacks IMO, and have it be the quiver killer for temps from 0 degrees and above. I use a -20 MontBell UL Super spiral for all other temps, and love that bag too by the way. Handles moisture way better than any other bag IMO.

Cheers

Ok. Well, I think I've decided to just stick with my WM bags for right now.

Here is some of my logic for anyone else in a similar situation:

Bag weights and (theoretical) objective temp rating based on loft:

These are actual weights. I just weighed them on my scale.

WM Versalite Long with several ounces of overfill: 37.7 oz temp: 0 deg. or possibly several degrees cooler with the over fill. Measuring the loft looks like more than 6 in. to me.

WM Ultralite Regular: 29.2 oz temp: 12.5 deg.

Zpacks 10 deg, ex. long, wide w/draft tube and goose hood: 27 oz temp 7 deg.
(The Zpacks weight is from the weights given on their website.)

I based these temp ratings on the manufacturers loft specs and the chart I found on this site that relates loft height to temperature rating. I realize this is oversimplified and a lot of other factors are involved but this is a decent baseline to objectively compare the three bags.

I think the Zpacks is the clear winner there as far as weight to warmth goes and I like the idea of the separate hood. I could knock another ounce or so off if I didn't get the draft tube but I roll around a lot (probably even more so with the separate hood) and would want to avoid cold spots.

The thing is, the WM bags are still great and very capable pieces of gear AND I already have them. I'd love to knock some bulk out of my pack but I figure it would cost me around $300 even if I sold and got a very fair price for my Ultralite. (I don't want to sale my Versalite because I have friends and a father who occasionally borrow it and need the larger size.)

So for $300 I would get a bag:

– that weighs 2.2 ounces less
– that is approximately 5 degrees warmer
– with a separate down hood

If I had more money I would definitely do it. It's just a lot of money for relatively small gains for me right now. As it is, I'm still needing a new tent (The Contrail is on it's last legs) and still need to budget for the trip itself.

Please understand this is saying nothing at all negative about Zpacks. I am nearly 100% certain that within the next year or two I will probably still end up getting one of their bags. I emailed Joe to ask him a few questions and got responses almost immediately. Seems like a great company company to do business with.

Also, I have to say about the WM bags, their longevity is truly impressive. The Versalite was purchased winter 2003/2004 and has untold nights of use. I used it as my early season bag on two AT thru-hikes beginning late Feb. It has been used many, many times since. In fact, I just let a friend borrow it for a 2.5 week trip backpacking in Peru. The Ultralite is 4 years old and was used for a PCT thru-hike and, again, countless other shorter trips since then.

Both bags look new. I'm not just saying that, they literally look like they did the day I got them. (Ok, the Versalite is due for a wash.) Down bags are an investment.

NW Hiker,
I guess you posted that while I was typing my last response.

Nooooo! Now I've got a bit of doubt creeping back in.

I know the bag would be great. I really do. It's just that I have to figure out the best way to spend my limited funds right now.

Thanks for your input though.

Sadly, if I'd earned minimum wage for the time I'd spent debating what to do on this subject I could buy the Zpacks bag outright.