Are Women’s Down Jacket’s Inferior to Men’s Versions???

Women are biological oddities. Most of the time they are (or feel) cold but at night they are little furnaces. Perhaps Montbell has yet to understand their curious nature. But yes, I think it has to do more with marketing… women don't want to look puffy, they want their clothes to be flattering. Montbell likely caters to this demand. Can women use male clothing? Sure. I think the cut is slightly different, though, in the uh, upper torso region.

First define 'inferior'.

I think what you are seeing here is a triumph of idiot marketing spin over functionality. The Women's models are NOT designed for performance; they are for fashion.

My suggestion would be to buy her a Men's jacket: greater functionality. At 10 F, a slightly rounded appearance with a pink face beats the hell out of a shivering miserable appearance with a blue face.

Cheers

Different design and different size too.
The W in m size is 24.4" long, the mens is 26.4" long.
So to have a similar loft you need more down inside the mens version.

A mens medium is about the same as a women's ex-large.

I'm willing to bet that those sizes of each would be very close to being the same.

Dividing the total weight by down weight, there is a disparity:

Men's Ex Light Down Jacket 5.6 oz with 1.8 oz – 3.1

Women's Ex Light Down Jacket 4.5 oz with 1.4 oz -3.2

Men's U.L. Down Jacket 7.6 oz with 2.0 oz -3.8

Women's U.L. Down Jacket 6.5 oz with 1.6 oz – 4.0

Men's Alpine Light Down Jacket 11.6 oz with 4.0 oz – 2.85

Women's Apline Light Down Jacket 10.1 oz with 2.9 oz – 3.48

Perhaps the tailoring for a women's fit changes the proportion of down to the rest of the materials? The better fit may be worth it.

If you could compare loft height IRL that would probably be the best gauge.

Tony, not sure about this particular piece of gear but a topic that drives my wife nuts. She gets a bit POed when comparing womens to mens gear. Forget fashion, she will usually by smaller mens gear if after scrutiny she finds the womens gear of less quality. All things being equal she will sometimes take the womens for fit. Sometimes she just prefers the cut of the mens gear,for instance a mens shell may have a lower hem for a little more coverage.

So if your listening gear makers…

jimmyb

The cut of a women's jacket would be smaller, less material, less down to fill it, same warmth. Am I missing something? Unless it is confirmed that there is less loft, this should be true. We are comparing the same size men's and women's correct? Like some one said, a large in men's most certainly does not equal a large in women's.

If anything else a womens down jacket should have MORE fill as women generally run colder than men

You see this in en-rated quality bags and in sleeping pads where female pads have a higher R value

The problem is that most of thse jackets are used as outdoor fashion accessories, thus the need for a body hugging slim fit

;)

OMG YES THEY ARE!!!

I have completely stopped even trying to buy women's jackets. As for Montbell, my alpine light was literally no warmer than my wind shirt. It was horribly cold – I borrowed a male friend's (which fit, so size wise was about the same) and it was SO much warmer than mine.

Rarely rarely are women's outdoor clothes actually designed for function. And as I get older I actually care even less about how I look (which I really did not think was humanly possible) so in terms of jackets I tend to just go straight for the men's versions these days.

I just bought a western mountaineering men's flash hoody – I never even bothered to see if the women's would be OK for me.

No different from comparing sleeping bags. Comes down to loft, which is a function of fill amount and the volume it has to fill. It's just math.

Women's jackets have less volume, not just in body length and width, but also in the arms (circumference and length.) Some manufacturers may fill women's and men's jackets to different lofts but some are consistent; I really don't think it's consistent across the market.

There's also fit. I see more women wearing their down jackets to be pretty form-fitting. When you stretch the fabric at all, you're going to compress the down and affect its performance. When the same woman puts on a men's model, it's probably a little looser all-around (including the arms), giving the down more room to loft, AND a little longer, better covering the whole torso. IMO, it isn't just the manufacturers who are compromising performance for the sake of fashion.

The function often suffers when it comes to duel zips for belay parkas and such. But don't forget that a smaller product line needs less down to fluff it up.

The less down fill also works because women tend to have less surface area to radiate heat, so the slightly less down should, in theory, work for the same amount of warmth. That said most women I've met don't want to be "warm" but rather "toasty" when it is cold out…so they like a warmer setup to start with.

Look at Rab, their women's products are both fashionable and do tend to be as puffy if not more than the male counterpart. In particular I just got an Infinity for my gf and she'll probably never need another down jacket in her life unless she goes to the arctic.

"The less down fill also works because women tend to have less surface area to radiate heat,"

If anything women have a higher surface-to-volume ratio.

Good to know about Rab. Any other women's lines that are good on this count? I'm planning to buy a women's down parka by next spring.

And of course every fashion designer knows that women hate pockets, or if they want pockets they should be incredibly small, just for show and not for practical use. THIS is the primary reason my wife hates women's clothing.

IMO women's fashion is primarily a creation of misogynistic men meant to torment women and/or make them more dependent on men by inhibiting their ability to function.

Ha, actually I do hate pockets! I would like pants with only front and back pockets, none on the leg. I don't use them and they bug me.

I don't know about outdoors clothing, but fashion fashion, there's a lot of women driving those choices. I used to be in that world to a certain degree.

I imagine the limitations in women-specific outdoor gear and clothing are far more about economics than misogyny.

Well, in the end, it's about $$ and since us women make up pretty much 100% of the customer base for women's clothing, we certainly have the power to shape designs and trends.

Problem is that there are way too many women buying technical clothing who have no intention of using it for that purpose. Just read the reviews. "Cute" is a positive. "Boxy" and "puffy" are negatives. The marketing people are listening and designing to what appeals and sells. Even companies like Feathered Friends, who didn't offer a women-specific down jacket until very recently, seem to eventually succumb to market demands.

> I would like pants with only front and back pockets, none on the leg.
I hate pockets on the back as well. Putting stuff there is an invitation to loss – or discomfort. And the iPhone6 reputedly bends when stored there.

Cheers

Yes, less pockets! In the process right now of sewing up some hiking shirts for the both of us. No pockets and modifying standard patterns to eliminate any redundant material. If I cant live without a pocket I can add one in later. I generally don't like stuff in my shirt pockets. Pants are next and they will for sure not have back pockets, just never use them. They may have a single front pocket but more likely will have med. sized side mounted cargos. I don't like when stuff bounces off my legs while in motion with front mounted cargos. The more gear I can make for us the less we are tied to fashion trends and unneeded accessories. :)

jimmyb

the cargo pockets on technical clothing is meant for carrying gear such as a pocket camera, avalanche beacon or a headlamp for climbing/mountaineering with a harness on … thats the only pocket that you can easily access alot of the time

especially for summer multpitch the leader may not be carrying anything else with pockets on em, and rarely a pack

i consider a good cargo pocket essential for climbing … the prana zion have the best with two zips so you can access it normally from the top and from hanging belays when yr legs are in a different position

;)

Hummmm, mixed bag of opinions, which is always a good thing.

I see the point about women's jackets being lighter and maybe less down due to being smaller than their male counter points.

Great to hear about Rab's jackets….I did check them out.

I guess the key is to see what jackets look puffy and have greater loft.

Fortunately, my girl friend only cares about staying warm and fashion be damned!

Funny, now that I have my kit all setup perfectly for going solo, now I am having to adjust to a two person setup.

Curses that humans are social creatures!!!!

If I were a anti social hermit who would never long for the touch of a woman, I would just be content to wander the woods alone with my cuben fiber blow up doll….LOL!

Tony