coatings on big puffy down jackets?

Most, if not all, lightweight puffies are designed for layering only. Meaning it is only meant as an insulation piece, not a do-it-all outerwear piece. My go to winter puffy is a GoLite Bitterroot, it seems to do fine with a breeze and light snow all on its own, not sure though what fabrics it uses.

I can walk around the block in single digits with just a tshirt underneath and actually start to sweat if I'm walking fast enough. I think if the puffy had any sort of legit wind or water barrier on it it would turn into a sauna, like trying to run with a rain jacket on.

Either wear some sort of wind-stopper garment underneath the puffy or get an oversized rain jacket or poncho to go over the whole thing.

I'm not aware of any current puffy jacket that doesn't have a factory DWR finish on the outer shell. Actually, I haven't seen any hard shell technical jacket (as opposed to fleece) that doesn't have a DWR finish.

I haven't studied every brand, but every Marmot, every Patagonia, and every LLBean jacket has a DWR finish, as do all of the hiking pants and shorts and sleeping bags I've looked at. Having light moisture bead up for a while is a big part of the performance of these fabrics. Restoring the DWR every so often (frequency dependent on use) is almost certainly going to extend the useable life of these garments.

They definitely have some sort of DWR. You wouldn't want too much anyway (like a full silnylon) or the moisture coming off your body will collapse the down before you have to start worrying about external moisture. This is why layering is so important. At -20°F while moving, the most important thing to do to stay warm is to make sure you don't sweat more than your clothes can breathe.

Hi Brett

> would just plain silnylon not be enough
That would be about the biggest disaster I can imagine. Think about the perspiration from your body, wafting gently through the down, to reach the sub-zero waterproof silnylon shell. Instant ice layer – inside the down.

Cheers

Even though the 7d/10d/etc fabrics are very lightweight, they can still be very wind resistant. M50 was a good example. I forget what CFM rating Richard measured, but it was extremely low. To the point many folks complained that it took a long time for their down garments to loft when using that fabric. Of course, other 10D fabrics like Nobul 1 stop very little wind. Most of it depends on the various coatings, thread count, calendared, etc. Ryan J. had a down jacket made with WPB cuben, I wonder how that turned out.

Ryan

Sorry, I meant just a regualar nylon layer or uncoated silnylon.

Hi Brett

> regualar nylon layer or uncoated silnylon.
Sorry to be so picky, but there is no such animal as 'uncoated silnylon'. The 'sil' in 'silnylon' is the silicone coating.

Now, if you mean a nice DWR-treated light-weight uncoated nylon fabric, of which there are currently quite a few available and widely discussed here, then fine. What is often advocated is a fabric with a cire finish. That is a heat treatment which smears the threads together a bit on one side to help block wind and down. If you want to keep the down inside, you put the cire finish to the inside. If you want to block the wind you put the cire finish to the outside. If you want to do both … um.

Cheers

The shell has to have the following properties in my mind.

* Breathable – water vapor has to pass through the garment in order to not be trapped with the down.

* Down Proof – Unless you like feathers lofting around

* Reasonably tough – no explanation necessary

* Finally low weight.

It doesn't need to be fully wind proof, which runs in the face of breathable. Most of us carry rain gear which would act in that regard and can layer over a puffy. Just a puffy with a 10d nylon works very well for me in most conditions where I'll use it (camp). I'd layer it under a rain jacket for additional warmth in extra cold or damp weather.