winter pod system?

Hi Austin,

It really depends how often you will be camping in sub 0f temps, I live in Michigan and out very few weeks in winter
So a -25f bag made sense to me.

Well that is one of my problems. I was never able to go out in that kind of cold as I was limited by my sleep system. Idealy I would like to go out around a half dozen times in the winter and not be limited by the low temps.

What pad do you use underneath your bag(s)?

The R value of the pad(s) will severely impact your system's comfort range. A -20 degree bag in 0 degree weather wont perform as expected with no pad underneath and on frozen ground.

I have my groundsheet, then a full length Z-rest, and then a Neo Air 4 season pad.

For one trial I took some old camp towels and sew them together to put between the z rest and my neo air 4 season pad.

The Neo air and zlite probably won't cut it for winter, I use either an Exped Synmat UL 7 or Downmat ul7 with a Ridgerest in winter.

If you are going to be out 6 times I would get a winter bag.

Looks like that combo would give me an additional 1.2 R-value as compared to my current setup. I am sure that is pretty significant, though I admit I am not an expert on R values.

I am wrong, its actually the Ridgerest Solite which is another .6r.

A Solite and your Neoair might do.

I would probably try the Ridgerest with my neo air first. the 40$ price tag look a lot nicer than the $270 one!

Sounds good.

I found that having the closed cell foam pad ON TOP of the insulated air mattress to feel MUCH warmer. I tried one of the cheap blue foam pads under my BA IAC and it felt cool. I moved it to the top and then felt warm. My temps were 29 the first night and 25 the second night. Those were not just the lowest temperature, but the continuous temperature shortly after the sun went down.

I'd put the ridgerest on top and try that.

Thanks for the imput. I think I have a good direction on improving my insulation from the ground.

I am still leary on dropping so much cash on a full fledged winter bag. I am debating on possibly just taking advantage of REI's return policy to try and find a big enough 3 season bag that will allow for myself and one of my quilts inside.

I use my 45º summer bag inside my 15º winter bag. Works great! I've slept to -18F

I bet your quilt on TOP of your sleeping bag would be warmer and more comfortable.

Max, what kind of bags do you use? Is your outer bag extra large? I am worried about not having enough room inside one bag to fit another inside.

My current two quilts both have closed footboxes that make using them as an outer quilt unpractical without modification.

yeah you can't really stack a quilt with a footbox on top of another quilt. the material that they are made out of is so slippery the second you move your legs the slightest bit the quilt that is laying on top slides off your feet. you could drape it overtop of your core though…

Would using a semi rectangular bag make more sense to use as an overbag with a quilt inside?

Max,

I very much agree with your double bag system. (BTW, so does the US Army)

If'n I wuz to camp in bitterly cold temps (below -20 F.) I've found that my WM Megalite down bag fits very nicely inside my MH synthetic -20 F. bag (once I unzip the expansion gore). Plus most of my sweat ends up inside the synthetic over bag, where it belongs.

But I may sell the MH synthetic bag and buy a -20 F. down bag with a good down DWR like Down Tek or Dri-Down. As much as I like my WM bag I'd never again buy a down bag without down DWR treatment.

–

What shelter are you using?

What is the condition of the ground? Frozen ground is like sleeping on a block of ice! You might need double the pad insulation in that case. Six or more inches of snow is good, but of course soft, dry forest debris is the best.

I have a heavy Marmot 650 down bag rated to 0F which I'm comfortable in down to 0F on a Downmat (r 5.9). Based on my backyard trials last winter at -15F, I could get down to at least -15F using a bivy bag and a vapor barrier liner. That would be using a Downmat (r 5.9) and a 48" Ridgerest (r 2).

I'm mostly summarizing suggestions of others here, but I'd try all of these together:

– Eat well before going to sleep.

– Get into bed as warm as you can be without sweating. Do a night hike if you have to.

– If you must sleep on frozen or otherwise solid ground (deck, rock), gather some downed pine/spruce boughs or other soft debris to place underneath your tent/bivy.

– Use a Ridgerest on top of the inflatable. (I also find this warmer than underneath.)

– Wear a thin baselayer and use a SOL bivy bag as a vapor barrier, pulled up to your armpits with the drawcord snugged down to trap air. I tried just the SOL bivy inside my 0F bag at 10F, and I had to ditch the bivy VB because it felt like it was 95F outside!

– Wear your insulating jacket (outside vapor barrier) and a warm balaclava.

– Both quilts, larger on outside. Maybe some small grosgrain loops and shock cord sewn on the edges to hold it in place over the other quilt?

– Could you separate the footbox of the larger one and fasten with velcro when used alone?

– Use a breathable bivy bag, especially if you're under a tarp rather than in a double wall tent. (And maybe consider a double wall tent for winter?)

I typically wear midweight wool baselayers during the winter and then supplement with what I wore during the day as needed depending on the temperature. This could include a wool sweater, fleece, down vest, and down jacket. on my head I typicaly have a smartwool balaclava, light beanie, and wool overhat. I do have a face mask and ski goggles but have never worn them to sleep in just when the wind picks up. For my feet, Wool socks, I do have some down booties from REI but am not sure how well they work. Glove liners for my hands at night.

I use a Golite Shangri-La 2 without its net tent in the winter. I like how versitile it is and have used it for almost every trip since I got it.

I appreciate everyone's advice from your comments and my further reading I think I am going to take the following steps this winter:

Replace my z-lite with a ridgerest sol.

Get a light Bivy sack of some kind.

Attempt to modify my 40 degree quilt so that the footbox fits over my 0 degree without compromising loft.

The mod to my quilt I am sure will take awhile, though I know there is a lot of good info here for that. Hopefully I will be able to report back later in the winter or spring with some positive feedback on these suggestions. Thanks all.