no-sew CF skirt – possible?

It is best not to discuss sewers. It is too emotionally draining.

It has been my experience that cuben fiber can be sewn very practically, but mostly in the heavy weights like the cuben fiber hybrids. In the light weights (<1 oz), it is best to tape it. I don't know which weight of fabric you are planning on using.

What's wrong with a sewing machine if you need it?

–B.G.–

Ha! OK I'm not much of a seamstress.

Most likely a lighter weight. So that sounds like a yes.

A couple of years ago I built a CF shelter (Tipi Similar to Golite's Shangrila-3), there is not a single stitch on the whole tent. Still holding up after extensive use. My seams were 1 inch wide and I used the tape that ZPacks sells. (Joe told me it was 3M's 9485PC at that time). I haven't used the tent on sub-freezing temps yet nor left it exposed to the sun for extended periods of time so I can not attest performance under those scenarios but I assume your application won't see those scenarios either.

I would probably use stitching for the elastic or Velcro section, but tape should be fine for the rest. Velcro may be OK without it.

Ryan

OK, I'm going to give it a try!

Thinking velcro for a closure. What thread/needle should I use to stitch velcro to CF?

ZPacks sells pre-sewn Velcro Tape Strips if you’re really against sewing.

http://zpacks.com/materials.shtml

"What thread/needle should I use to stitch velcro to CF?"

As previously stated, you want to first decide what weight of cuben fiber you intend to use. If it is the thin stuff, you may not want to sew at all. Some velcro closures are self-adhesive, so no sewing is required.

–B.G.–

Try the Zpacks sewn on Velcro strips with adhesive first. If you notice some peel taking place(which I suspect you will after a while) throw a few widely spaced stitches around the Velcro. Any small needle & thread will work. You would be sewing through two layers of cuben plus the Velcro backing which will be sufficiently strong even with the .51oz stuff.

Ryan

> a six-panelled skirt for a smooth fit around the hips.
If the tape fails you could end up with something like a grass skirt…

Cheers

"> a six-panelled skirt for a smooth fit around the hips.
If the tape fails you could end up with something like a grass skirt…

Cheers"

That could be interesting…

OK, unless advised otherwise my plan is:

.51 CF and single sided tape.

and tape both the inside and out.

The main risk to the lighter stuff would probably be abrasion while sitting. I'd have to watch that.

Are the materials/supplies from Bearpaw and Zpacks that same?

I'd like to have the velcro closure in the middle of my back waist. However there wouldn't be a seam there. I could put if off to one side, but the asymmetry would bother me. I suppose I could do two, more shallow closures. And I would probably create the necessary overlap with the tape.

Not sure exactly what I want for a hemline, half a yard might be perfect, but doesn't leave much margin.

What can I tape for a mock-up, paper? I'm going to be ordering some DriDucks soon, doubt the pants would provide enough material (beyond the Clelland version).

I guess you know that .51 ounce cuben fiber is awfully flimsy and is relatively transparent. To improve the wearability, I think that you would want to step up a notch or two on the weight.

–B.G.–

I'm not concerned about transparency, as I'll put it on over whatever shorts or pants I'm already wearing when it starts to rain.

Something to consider if I move on to formal gowns.

I'd go up to .7 if it means I could skip the sit-pad….so long as I can still tape.

I'm not exactly sure how your design is coming together, but I would design to use double sided tape as opposed to the single. A visual may help us, help you(OK, maybe just me). Mock up – Ducks plastic window(polycro) stuff is super cheap & comes with its own tape. Acts much like cuben.

I've been considering making a cuben rain skirt the last few months. Interested to see how it turns out for you.

Ryan

"I'd go up to .7 if it means I could skip the sit-pad….so long as I can still tape."

zPacks uses 1.0oz material… I have one and used it for about 20 minutes before sitting on a rock a cutting a small hole in it…

really, if you can give up the idea of a nice tapered fit at the waist you don't have to do any sewing at all… none… zip… nada…

I made a rain skirt out of coated nylon and just cut a piece long enough and wide enough and cut small slits just below the waist every 4 or 6 inches… string some light weight shock cord or elastic through the holes, use a cord lock at the ends of the elastic/shock cord and you're done… you just step into it and pull the cord lock…

billy

nah, this isn't something i have to do. it's something I want to do. No taper, no tape, I lose the inspiration.

Also, the skirts out there are gonna fit guys better. That's why I want to make my own.

Sounds like no matter how heavy a CF weight I'll get holes. I'll bring some tape with me. Eventually it will be an all-tape skirt!

I actually did try making a Sil-nylon skirt about a year ago with a hole-punch and elastic. Never tested it, wouldn't trust it. Not sure how it would stay enclosed all the way around.

[and that would be the sil-nylon from the Ray-Way tarp kit I bought in 2005 and never completed, see…]

@ Ryan–

Why the double sided? Just that much stronger?

My thought on the single was that aligning two pieces on one piece of tape might be easier than a three-layer sandwich of CF-tape-CF.

I doesn't matter, but how do I decide which CF panel get to be inside the tape and which goes outside?!

OK, now you're all interested, I'm actually going to have to make this thing.

EDIT TO ADD:

thanks for the tip on polycro for the mock-up.

what weight CF were you thinking of using?

Right. It's stronger. You don't need a lot of strength I guess, but I always err on that side when creating seams with cuben. Aligning the pieces with two sided tape is a piece of cake too. You can practice a little on some scrap pieces to get the hang of it.

I would have to see your skirt design, but my initial thought is it wont matter which piece is inside/out. You won't even notice there's a seam with .51/.74oz cuben.

Ryan

You may consider a rain wrap style if you don't want to sew. Something a bit like this- http://www.lightheartgear.com/index.php/rain-gear/product/view/4/24
or like Joe's- http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/cloudkilt.shtml

I wear skirts, a lot. I like your thought process, but I have had the best luck with a pattern based loosely on a Caldera Cone style. One single piece of fabric with a single seam and drawcord waist. You could likely do this no sew. The finished skirt is a bit like a lampshade. WHOA you say, not for me, but in a rain skirt you want the billow to it, gives you more ventilation and the extra width means a bit less drips on your toes/shoes. Also, unless you wear a mini skirt, or pleat it like a quilt; then the skirt restricts your movement too much on anything but the easiest strolling type terrain.

The cone pattern with drawcord fits my badunkadunk, fits my wife just fine too. Unless you build a fly/zipper into your skirt, you can't get it over your ass. So best bet to save weight is use a drawcord waist. I did webbing for awhile, but simple 1/4 flatcord is better and doesn't conflict with your hipbelt.

You could use a simple drawcord channel at the waist- give yourself 1.5". Fold the corners over at a 45, then fold the channel in half and use 1/2" seam tape. Leaving enough channel to do the job. You may consider backing it up with an additional piece of 1/2" single side tape on the outside.

Once that is done, use double sided tape to form the seam to close the cone. Like the Zpacks skirt but without Velcro.

Likely you should use a piece of tape to form a hem and protect the raw edge. I wouldn't go lighter than .7 CF. I made some skirts from M50 (.7oz) fabric and it was too wispy/clingy. I make most skirts now out of uncoated 1.4oz nylon for general wear. It's rare for a skirt to require more than a yard of material unless you want it past your knee. You're talking grams between .51 and 1.0. Likely you would carry more grams of repair tape than you would save on the skirt. 1.0 would be my choice for this reason.

With a wrap style, won't the wind blow it open?

With a drawcord, wouldn't whatever knot or fastener create more bulk under the hip belt?

I suppose, if I just need enough give to get it on/off I could maybe used a fixed-length elastic waist and have slits at the top of all the seams — there'd probably be enough overlap that a rain jacket would cover it, and the lack of a complete seal wouldn't matter much.

I like the lines of the lighthearted gear rain wrap. I have been thinking A-line, with a fair amount of flair for stride. Maybe shorter.

Thanks for the advice on taping a hem. I was wondering about that.

Originally was thinking about this when I was looking online at the MLD rain chaps, and thinking how a skirt paired with those might be good in heavier with a jacket and skirt.

Doesn't every woman need a cuben fiber mini skirt? I want to start a trend!

I only have a feel for the .7 stuff on the underside of my bivy. Does any place provide swatches?

I don't care so much about counting grams here, my big question is: How heavy a weight CF can I go and still stay no-sew?

I'm also loosely basing this on another garment of clothing I have. I realized yesterday that fabric is sewn on the bias. That would be irrelevant to CF, right? Or does it maker which way the grain goes? (yes, I know it's just one direction, not two like a woven)

I'd like to sketch this out to share — posting is helping me think this through. What app would be easiest to sketch out and share design ideas?

Thanks for all the advice so far!

For cuben fiber up to about 1 ounce, I would go with tape only.

Cuben fiber has tiny internal strength threads, and there are different amounts depending on which weight of fabric it is. In the heavier/stronger ones, the threads go several different directions in order to get maximum strength, like for a tent ridgeline. The thin stuff has simpler thread structure.

You might want to think about whether you want the clear cuben fiber, or else the tinted stuff, blue, green, or black.

–B.G.–

The wrap uses almost 50% more fabric. Never personally used one as I don't like the design, although the advantage is you don't have to step into it with muddy shoes. Wrap it like a Sarong at the beach, takes a good wind to mess it up. I suppose Zpacks skirt with the full length of Velco accomplishes the same thing as well if the idea of a wrap rather than a step in appeals to you.

Do you have a pair of drawcord running shorts? Try it out… plenty of folks backpack in those. Personally, I wear the skirts on my waist (some ladies like them on their hips) so I find the simple shoelace knot I use ends up above the buckle of my hipbelt and out of the way. Webbing tended to roll in the channel, and the ladderlock or other buckle did get in the way. No issues with 1/4" flat cord- a spare shoelace works well too.

Your snipped elastic channel is a bad idea from a durability and ease of construction standpoint. You'd be better off using a 1/8" or 1/4" elastic (like the kind for wrist cuffs) piece in a plain channel. Put it on, pull the elastic tight, tie a simple knot and snip off the extra. The elastic will stretch enough to slip it on, and your hipbelt will take up any extra slop. If the elastic wears out it is easy to snip and replace.

I have a ghetto booty, and roughly a 5" difference from waist to hip measurement. Unless you are J-Lo or Beyoncé, odds are decent I got more junk in the trunk than you and if it works for me, it probably works for you. A-Line style is pretty much what you get, I think. Looks like a lampshade to me.

To lay out I measure waist, and waist to knee. I prefer knee length as well, though some prefer mid calf. Either way- I layout two parallel lines- waist length and fabric width minus 2 inches. I set the distance between them at Waist to Knee minus 3". I connect the sides to form a triangle, then swing arcs from the center point to layout the skirt. Add 1.5" to top, 1" to bottom, and 3/4" to sides for Seam allowances. Sorry- I can't seem to post a pic to show you- but it's a basic caldera cone layout if that helps.

While a cuben mini skirt would be a stunning addition to any wardrobe, I personally would find a nice knee length semi transparent green cuben to be the more alluring piece of apparel. Imagination is a powerful tool.

Someone else will have to help you with the cuben specific questions- though I don't think any of the items you mention are a concern really. (Bias, etc.) As far as I know- for a non-structural application like this- you could easily go with any weight you feel comfy with and the tape should work fine.

Unless you plan to be in the rain all the time, and sitting in the rain all the time- I would think 1.0 would be plenty tough. Although a heavier weight would give you a nice "sit" piece even on dry days. Like the Tyvek scrap many use for that purpose.

I got some swatches from Quest Outfitters, but had to pay a minimal charge and add to an order(to avoid separate shipping). Most fabric folks seem to go this route.

I like Google sketch up- it's free.

Thanks Bill, that's very useful info.

Come to think of it, my patagonia rock craft pants have a slim drawstring and it's never been an issue.

Maybe you're right. Maybe a cone with one seam will achieve the same as six with less fuss. I'll experiment will some polycro mock-ups.

I"m not Beyonce, but I've got a 11" waist/hip differential. Though I'd probably wear the skirt lower than my true waist, somewhere above hip belt level, which would be more about a 5" differential.

If I can match my rainwear with my bivy and my stove, that would be awesome!

@ Bob:

"In the heavier/stronger ones, the threads go several different directions in order to get maximum strength, like for a tent ridgeline. "

I did not know that. Thanks