Total luxury XUL (SUL) is now possible

map/compass:
How would you navigate in thick fog above the treeline, or below it if a route was blocked by something like a dangerous stream crossing, assuming there were no other known trails to follow?

whistle:
A voice carries maybe a few hundred yards at most in those thick woods, while a whistle can be heard for miles.

firestarter:
With all gear and clothing soaked and temps near 30F, how would you prevent hypothermia?

sunglasses:
OP stated he was going above the treeline, and these would be essential to prevent temporary blindness there and in the fringe seasons when there are no leaves on the trees.

A map, compass, whistle, and firestarter can be carried for as little as 2.5 oz.

The 10 essentials argument here at BPL is getting silly. Carry them. Don't carry them. Buzzards need to eat just don't get a SAR member killed trying to rescue or recover you.

I agree that sunglasses are essential. Mine weigh roughly one ounce and go with me on every trip regardless of forecast and treeline.

Where are you camping in the whites above treeline? Also why?

AFAIK the only way to do that is in winter with snow cover. The alipine vegetation is to fragile otherwise.

Alright Gary,

You want to save some weight.
Well I can be very blunt on how to.

First of all, you are failing in the warmth category.
You have all of this to keep you warm:

Tachyon Hoody/ or Z-pack rain jacket
Pat-Cap 4 bottoms
Pat-Cap 4 top
Houdini Pants
Down Booties
Down Hat
Gloves
MB EX-lite Jacket

So you have the gear and are dressing for 15 degree weather but using it for 35.
This means that one or two things is wrong.

So you have a 30 degree quilt but it doesn't keep you warm without the 37 ounces of extra (base weight) clothing from above.
That doesn't even include the clothing you are hiking with.

The real problem is the jacket.
You need a warm enough hooded jacket so you can ditch the Cap-4, gloves, and down cap.
So an extra 3 ounces in a warmer jacket could take off 10 ounces, saving you 7 ounces off your base weight.

Next up is your tarp and bivy.
It seems you need a bivy because you don't have enough coverage with your tarp?
Why both? Maybe you should have bought the Solo Plus for 1 more ounce.
Then you could have saved 3.75 ounces leaving the bivy at home.

The same goes with the sit pad and pillow.
Why not use something that could work as both?

Last – You have "Now total luxury XUL (SUL) is possible"

Are you implying that you want to try to go XUL?
Because you are nowhere close to XUL.
Not sure why you would even hint or throw around the XUL term.?

If you really want some areas to drop weight, you need to reconsider your "luxuries".
Most are not "luxuries". They are not even necessary, just redundant.

This list looks like someone that has no skill what so ever that is going to try to be SUL at a campsite.
Most people who work at getting their weight down are not camping at campgrounds.

Without the campground factor, you can now be free to find a camp site that has soft ground.
With soft ground, you don't need a full length air pad. Soft ground is softer than an 11 ounce air pad any day.

So to me, this list just lacks one big thing; Experience…

… in closing, you are an inexperienced or possibly no-skill-whatsoevered, redundant warmth-carrying, clearly and demonstrably non-XUL, campground-camping lame-o.

So explain how you want to drop weight while carrying 37 ounces of extra base weight clothing?

Most people who are in the SUL category already know what clothing is "necessary".
This list is based on luxuries that are not necessities.
So if Gary wants to loose weight, he needs have a lot more experience with taking less that easily works in the conditions he is hiking in.

Since Gary "needs" all of these "luxury" items, it just seems to me that he lacks the skills, experience, and knowledge of how to really drop the weight he is implying he wants to drop.

So in closing, "you are an inexperienced and no-skill-whatsoevered, redundant warmth-carrying, clearly and demonstrably non-XUL, campground-camping"

Well yes…

No need to be insulting. I'd say it like this:

Until, on the coldest night you plan for, you are wearing all your clothes inside your sleep system, you could bring less clothing.

The exceptions I would make is one extra pair of socks and possibly an extra pair of UW so they can be in rotation while being washed and dried.

Other controversies:

Having been in the Presidentials with 3-foot vis (really – waving my arm in front of me so as not to walk into something), the tiniest button compass would be on my list.

I don't bring sunglasses in part because I wear prescription glasses. They cut a little of visible but all of the UV. In combination with a brimmed hat, they are all I need to 14,000 feet. They also avoid contact lens solution and case.

alright i'm less experienced then all of you….

But gloves? How's a warmer jacket gonna make those redundant?

Gloves are nice. I mean maybe you could skip them if you don't mind cold hands. But i'm not sure of the parka in lieu of gloves logic.

Re: gloves "How's a warmer jacket gonna make those redundant?"

I pull my hands into my sleeves. Sad thing is I actually carry a pair of possum down gloves (super fluffy/comfy) but I find that on the rare occasion that my hands start to get cold, I'm too lazy to spend the single minute to drop my pack and dig them out. Some LS base layer tops have a thumb hole.

Ian, maybe time you could try "idiot strings" like children have to prevent lost mittens!

Ha ha! Maybe I'll try that.

This probably has more to do with the fact that I've been up and running since 3am and am running on coffee with an energy drink chaser but I kept hearing Yosemite Sam narrating Aaron's rant.

I do agree with letting experience guide your packing list over time. I've stopped carrying a puffy or fleece for trips where the lowest expected temperature will be >= 32* but I did that over time. I also realize that I benefit from natural insulation and that this won't work for everyone. If you wear the insulation on the trail or in camp, then fine. If you only wear it when sleeping, then you're better off investing that weight into more fill for your quilt or sleeping bag than in a down sweater.

Again. OP's at 6lbs. Whatever. If you like it, bring it.

A warmer jacket can help some in the need for gloves in that if your body is warmer, then it's easier to keep the hands and feet warmer. That doesn't work as well if we're talking about bare hands in the wind or if they're wet. It's also true in that wearing wind-blocking gaiters or wind-blocking or warmer pants can help keep the feet warm. The blood going to those extremities is cooled less on the way, so it's warmer when it gets there. When hiking or skiing down into the mid 20's F, I sometimes don't need any gloves (or hat or jacket).

But, I agree with you that a warmer jacket is not really a substitute for gloves. It just helps reduce the need for warmer gloves.

Edit: Idiot strings are often used by adults in extreme cold conditions where the impact of a lost mitten is severe. My experience with them is more in the context of, "I wish those idiot strings would stop getting in my way!"

The technically correct term is "dummy cord."

I find them very useful in extreme cold weather (below 0F) when I'm wearing multiple glove layers such as ECW mittens over trigger mittens. That's of course not what we're talking about here but I do appreciate the Christmas Story image of me tying my Possum Down gloves together through my rain shell.

Interesting that there is no first aid listed. I wish it was dead weight in my pack but darn if I don't seem to use it at least once on each trip….

> The technically correct term is "dummy cord."

Nope, we're both wrong. The correct term is "mitten leash." ;)

It depends on who you ask. I think the US military leans toward "dummy cord", while the rest of the world calls them "idiot strings" or "mitten leashes".

Whatever they're called, they're definitely essential, even for the SUL or XUL backpacker. Don't leave home without them, or you'll be buzzard bait!

(only joking!)

Gloves is just a sad topic for me.

Had the perfect pair of thin fleece gloves. Lost one last fall. I keep seeing the one I have and hoping it's the one I'm missing. It never is.

I'll probably take my slightly thicker, complete pair of fleece gloves this weekend.

Then maybe switch to… mittens? :D

Definitely, no one runs the Iditarod without them.

Great list: it introduced me to a number of brands and items I was unfamiliar with.

Cheers from Osaka,

john