What kind of layers do I need for 14 Fahrenheit?

As someone who does a lot of ice climbing and winter camping in this kind of temperatures I'll be the first to say that the Cerium LT is probably not enough. I use a Patagonia Fitz Roy or DAS when I stop moving to belay, eat, or rest and some good mitts. The Arcteryx equivalent is the Dually. Even then, I can get cold, which is why I have supplemented it with a {prototype project} from Enlightened Equipment for my legs. I wear ordinary layers under this like a lightly insulated jacket or fleece hoody and long johns + softshell pants.

As for gloves, I find that I am usually very happy to just use lightweight fleece gloves for dexterity and plunge my hands into mitts to warm up. The best mitts are not waterproof but have interior linings that don't absorb water. I found a cheap pair of leather and fleece mitts that are by far the best mitts I've ever used, since they dry quickly even when you put them on over wet hands.

Depending on your own personal metabolism, how much you stop and for how long, you may be able to subtract layers, or may need to add them.

Are you trying to go cheap (but reasonable in weight) or UL (hang the cost)?

My snarky response to Caliornians & Oregonians dealing with sub-zero temps for the first time (I was once was one such person):

"If you get cold, you're used to putting on a sweater. When it gets really cold, you put on a jacket. When you're still cold, you just might realize you need to put on a hat. But you've been wearing the same pants the whole time."

I said that a lot while working in a coastal California BPing store.

That you have capilene bottoms is a good start. You probably don't have as many layers for your legs as you do for your trunk. And, at least as much as for your trunk, the outer layers need to be bigger than the inner ones. The cheapest way to go is with "powder pants" or "ski bibs" for as little as $39 at a sporting goods warehouse store. Or STP:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/marker-gillette-ski-bibs-insulated-for-men~p~14729/?filterString=s~ski-bibs%2Fclothing~d~5%2Fmens-clothing~d~15%2F&colorFamily=27

take off another 30% and it's $39.

There are other bottom layers you may already have and wool or polyester pants do well in the cold. Even retired dress pants (more layers of those, though). $5 at a thrift store. Also, as a West Coaster using dealing with liquid water, it is easy to forget that there is no liquid water at -10C/14F. So you CAN wear cotton jeans (flannel-lined, better yet) or sweat pants, as long as you don't sweat in them or fall in a creek.

For gloves, downhill skiing gloves work well in low temps. Wool or polypro liners let you adjust them a bit to warmer and colder temps. Also, liner gloves let you make camera adjustments without exposing your bare skin.

Footwear is another arena that needs different gear but you can't just "layer up" as easily as you can on you legs and trunk (there are some insulated gaiters, through). Sorels are the classics, but Kamik and Khombu aren't so spendy. Here's a $30 option (after taking another 30% off):

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/itasca-benchwarmer-pac-boots-waterproof-insulated-for-men~p~7364j/?filterString=s~snow-boots%2Fshoes~d~4%2Fmens-footwear~d~11%2F&colorFamily=01

Hats can be layered and a thin fleece or wool skull cap can be used by itself, as can something with more coverage (chin flaps) or they can be used together. You may not know about neoprene face masks, but those help a lot below 0F or if there's much wind below 20F. Walmart, REI, and Sportsmen's warehouse all have the $25 ones. I've found slightly thinner (therefore lighter) ones on ebay for $1.50 – $2 each including shipping and my kids use them down to about -10F/-23C and use the thicker ones below that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neoprene-Neck-Warmer-Warm-Face-Mask-Cover-for-Sport-Motorcycle-Bicycle-Biker-/251561840525?pt=US_Athletic_Clothing&var=&hash=item3a92410f8d

-10C sounds pretty conservative for the Rocky Mountains in September unless you're going very high. Possibly, certainly, but not common. Banff shows an average Hi/Lo for October (!) of 48F/29F although record Hi/Lo of 79F/-7F

I'd bring a puffy for sure and preferably one with a hood. You can get a USGI field jacket liner to serve this purpose. They are comfy, light and cheap.

Pay extra attention to ears, hands, and feet.

Check military surplus stores for trigger mittens w/ wool liners. ECW mittens(the non trigger ones) are great but probably overkill.

Come up with a plan to keep your water bottles from freezing. Plenty on that if you search Google and BPL.

May be early for ski goggles but worth considering.

A lot of people use the neoprene face doohickey David mentioned. I prefer a neck gaiter or balaclava with a warm watch cap over it.

Consider thicker insoles to help insulate your feet from the ground. Over sized pair of trail runners that'll accommodate thicker socks or insulated boot are probably in order.

If you're buying a down jacket try to get one that has DWR treated down like Dri-Down or Down-Tek.

Then you can wear it while hiking and know it will dry fast overnight.

For me Cap 4 base layer, a windshirt and my hardshell are enough at those temps, but that is when moving, working pretty hard through knee high snow.

When on a break, or almost stationary, something like the Cerium LT would for me personally definitely not be enough.
Since that is a nice layer to have though, I would pair it with another shell instead of one bigger shell. You do pay a bit of a weight penalty like this of course – similar to when you layer quilts or sleeping bags. But I really like it. I have an Atom LT hoody and a down hoody from Montbell similar to the Cerium and it layers very well together, and is plenty warm.

If really cold and I want to go synthetic I take the Atom LT and Atom SV and layer those. etc. Or if there is probably no need or it is summer and you want some warmth for a possibly chilly evening you can still take the thinner of your jackets separately.

If I would go all the time or a lot of my time I might buy a dedicated thicker jacket like the Dually or Fitz Roy.

Personally also like hard shell pants for those temps, but mine are with huge thigh vent zips, so I just have a base layer under them and open up or close according to activity level.

Nobody seems to be covering gloves for a photographer.

First of all, you need some nice warm ski gloves, and that is for when you are standing around waiting. However, those are too thick to manipulate camera dials and buttons. For dials and buttons, you want very thin gloves. I use some waterproof gloves for that inner layer. But then while waiting for the next shot, I pull the thick gloves on over the thin ones.

A chemical hand warmer is nice to have. Put it in the pocket where you can warm your right hand (for your shutter button finger).

–B.G.–

If you are fairly still for long periods of time, you will have similar requirements to climbers who "belay"

Basically the insulation you need when active is minimal compared to that when still

Read this

http://kellycordes.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/winter-climbing-101-the-belay-parka/

http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_belay_jacket

As to jackets … Something with 10-15+ oz of high fill power down is generally recognized as a cold winter belay jacket

;)

As others have indicated, the Arcteryx Cerium will likely not be enough when you stop unless you run very warm. You need about 4x more insulation when sitting as when you are doing heavy work (like hiking fast up a hill). So if you are comfortable hiking in the Cerium then you will want something to layer over it which is roughly 2-3x as insulating. Richard’s chart about activity vs temp with clothing overlaid provides a useful visualization of this.

At 14F when pushing hard I would be wearing cap 3 leggings + hiking pants, cap 4 hoody, wind shirt, power stretch gloves . If I was hiking at a modest past I would want to add a 100 weight vest or 80 weight fleece jacket. Sitting around *I* would be ok with the Cerium+ some puffy over pants and a down baklava over my head, or without the puffy pants and a warmer jacket (my WM Flash Hoody), but I run hotter than a number of my friends.

As for gloves… I like light power stretch gloves for the high breathability and good dextarity as basic protection and then heavy over mitts for warmth when stopped. For backpacking I have been using insulated vapor barrier mitts from RBH Deigns The other good option extended cold weather backpacking are mitts with a removable WP/B shell and a very breathable inner insulation that can get dried out in your sleep bag overnight. I have use OR Meteor Mitts in those sorts of conditions.

Other thoughts on my clothing recommendation page.

–Mark

Bring an extra warm hat/balaclava and base layer top. When you get to your camp site, the ones you have been hiking in will be wet with perspiration.

> Bring an extra warm hat/balaclava and base layer top. When you get to your camp site,
> the ones you have been hiking in will be wet with perspiration.
If they are wet with perspiration, then you were wearing (far) too many clothes. This is a very common mistake which leads to all sorts of problems (and extra weight).

Sufficiently experienced walkers always try to travel cool. The benefits are obvious.

Cheers

The old axiom:

Put on more layers before you get cold. Take off some layers before you get hot.

–B.G.–

If you end up waiting a while for a shot, you'll quickly appreciate a sitpad that keeps you off the ground/log/rock/whatever you're sitting on.
Also comes in handy for camp, breaks, filtering water, etc.

Thanks so much for the information here guys. Sounds like I might have to get an Atom LT to layer with my Cerium, then I'll need some lighter waterproof gloves, warmer mits, a warm balaclava, some kind of hard shell pants (I have no lower body water protection) and chemical warmers for hand/feet.

On top of what I already have, this should be enough yes?