Best rainwear for a month in monsoonal summer on JMT

[Roleigh Martin]

I just finished 27 days on the JMT, July 15-Aug 10, and in 15 years of hiking in this time frame in the High Sierras, it was the wettest I've hiked in yet. One day it rained non-stop 12 hours, with sleet and rain encountered as we went over Pinchot Pass, and winds up to about 40-50 miles an hour (estimated). Everything got wet and soaked. My Rab eVent rain jacket was completely soaked.

I'm wondering if one needs for this type of rainwear used by fishermen in deep sea squall conditions. Where one wants to not have the coat be breathable, where one wants to retain body heat.

Two of us had to setup tent, jump in our sleeping bags on our sleeping pads with down jackets and shiver for 2 hours to avoid hypothermia.

I'm wondering if one needs two types of rain coats for difficult month-long JMT hikes (I'm 64, done 7 JMT hikes, and want to continue doing the JMT hikes each summer, as I find it the best blend of aerobic, anaerobic, scenery, meeting fascinating people, and aside from once-a-decade atypical monsoonal weather conditions, normally very benign, predictable weather conditions between mid-July to mid-Aug hiking.

I've looked at jacket tonight from Arcteryx (Theta AR) and Grundens (have no idea which of their products to consider). I'd like pit zips with waterproof zippers. Any other jackets one can recommend based upon experience?

I want a jacket that can take day after day of repeated rain. We had about 2 days of bad rain a week for 3 weeks straight.

Unbelievable for High Sierra weather conditions.

Thanks! (I'd like to pass on some of your recommendations to the Yahoo JohnMuirTrail group I'm currently lead moderator of (3,000+ members).

[Bob Gross]

Remember that California is experiencing the third year of an extreme drought.

–B.G.–

[Justin Baker]

I was out July 15-17 and experienced some of that. I was wearing shorts, a thin polyester, a rain jacket, and non waterproof shoes. I was just getting too cold and had to wait it out. The trails went from being dry and turned into above ankle streams in just a few minutes. Hail doesn't feel to good on bare legs either.

When you describe your rain jacket getting soaked, it's the DWR failing on the outer fabric. Once the outer fabric wets out the jacket no longer breathes. You got wet from your own body moisture. Any rain jacket will do this.
Water generally can't pass through waterproof breathable membranes.

The rain jacket isn't the problem.

What you need is a light mid layer to keep you warm once you get wet on the inside. No jacket will keep you dry in continuous rain and you need to compensate with light insulation layers that work when wet.

After my experience I've decided to carry a light fleece vest if there is any rain in the forecast. I tend to get colder than most.

In an emergency you can also wear tight fitting long underwear in the rain as they will keep your legs from getting too chilled even when soaked out. But then you won't have dry long underwear to use in your sleeping bag. It needs to be tight fitting to work when it's wet.

[kevperro .]

If you get enough rain/wind for extended time it doesn't matter what you wear. You are going to be wet.

The key is having layers under your hard shell that keep you "warm enough" when wet and that will dry via your body temp pushing the water vapor through a breathable shell at some point.

The right fleece will do that. It isn't super packable, wind resistant nor light compared to the feathered puffy but it has it's place in prolonged cold wet weather.

[USA Duane Hall]

I went from having at least one day of offtrail adventure, to just staying on trail and changing my plans since offtrail I'd be even wetter, my hands were cold anyway and worried being solo of hypothermia. I was only out 5 days.
Duane

[M G]

http://www.weatherwest.com/

[Lori P]

I use a pack liner to keep pack contents dry, and use rain gear to stay warm, not expecting to stay dry.

Have purchased or gotten 5 different jackets and three different pants – they stay at home these days. I take a regular $15 PU poncho. It keeps the wind and most of the rain at bay. I still sweat. After the three layer *new* waterproof breathable jacket soaked through and wet me to the bone, after the PU jacket made me sweat like a mofo standing still, after the eVent still left me dripping… all done.

Changing into base layer in camp and putting on the dry socks is how I am dry at night. Wet stuff goes in a plastic bag in the quilt with me, to be warm for morning. It'll hike dry if the clouds disperse.

[James holden]

In sustained rain youll get damp no matter what

Even if you dont get water through yr sleeves and hood

With enough heavy rain yr dwr can wet out and the jacket stop breathing … Youll get damp from internal condensation

At that point the jacket serves more to keep the COLD water out and keep your body heat in … Keeping you warm and damp rather than wet an cold

You quickly learn to

– to wear as little as possible under the jacket when moving … To minimize sweat

– to wear only synthetics as they dry out to less damp under body heat … Even merion wont dry out in continously wet conditions with no sun

– to have a good fleece you can put on when you stop or move slower

Your best option in terms of durable gear for those conditions is a non UL 3 layer goretex pro jacket made from a reputable manufacturer with an excellent warranty

;)

[Justin Baker]

"to wear only synthetics as they dry out to less damp under body heat … Even merion wont dry out in continously wet conditions with no sun"

Synthetics won't dry out either in continuously wet conditions. At least wool is a little warmer and less thermally conductive when wet.
But for the sierras synthetics are better because you will get breaks in the rain with sun and you want to dry out asap before the rains hit again.

[James holden]

Thin synthetic base layers will dry out enough to get much less damp with body heat and a hawt nalgene

With merino the fabric will cling to you when soaked and never dry out without the sun

Also some synthetics like the cap4/t2 have a ribbed inside and and bi-weave fabric that reduce the wet area in contat with the skin and promote capillary action to transport away the moisture

Fleeces have this interior "fuzzyness" as well, you can just wring em out and theyll feel much less damp even when its constantly wet outside

Merino is a poor choice for base/mid layers for constantly wet conditions without the sun

The "warm when wet" argument is pretty bunk when its right next to your skin

;)

[Justin Baker]

If we are talking about extended no breathability situations like a wetted out wpb jacket or using a non breathable rain jacket, then then dry time isn't important because nothing will dry out anyways. So I would rather go with a merino base layer.
I wouldn't carry a wool midlayer though, too heavy when wet.

If we are talking about situations with on/off rain and retaining breathability then yes I totally agree the synthetic will keep your dryer and warmer.

So getting back on topic here, synthetic will perform much better in the Sierras unless you are worried about odor control.

[James holden]

It will still dry out

Theres really 2 (maybe 3) phases in the rain

– moving … In this case you want to wear as little as possible under yr shell … A thin synthetic will absorb minimal moisture and keep you from overheating as much as possible, thus minimizing the sweat … Youre running hot so the "warm when wet" of merino isnt useful

– resting … In this case you simply put on that thick fuzzy fleece under your rain jacket … The moisture will migrate outwards and yr base layer will get less damp … Ive been able to dry out thin synth shirts this way … Getting up and doing light chores under a tarp or a hawt nalgene also helps dry it out … This only really works with synth garments … As you already have an insulating layer, you want the base layer to transfer the moisture to the fleece, not stat wet

– there is also moving slowly such as in technical terrain or descending where theres less excertion … In these cases a light fleece vest or a powerdry cap4/t2 top may keep you from getting chilled as you arent generating enough heat, especially when damp

Synth base layers are easily dried even in continously wet conditions if you have a synth bag (or overbag)

Ive been able to dry out synth layers to as least the "much less damp" situation even under continous rain with the proper techniques

You cant do that with merino …

;)

[Max Dilthey]

Fleece, fleece fleece.

The Patagonia Micro-D fleece is back for 2014 and it only weighs 8oz….

Literally one fleece is often the difference between hypothermia under a wet rainshell.

[M B]

I used driducks. Hiked about 25 miles in them in the rain. I just accept I will be wet (sweat) while hiking, and change into dry base layer when stop. When u have an uphill, that will keep you warm, but the jmt has long 5-10 mile gradual downhills after passes going sobo that give opportunity to get chilled pretty good.

Took me 1.5 hrs in quilt one afternoon to get warmed up good to where toes were toasty.

[Roleigh Martin]

Max, what about the Patagonia water-resistant fleece?

http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/mens-piton-hybrid-jacket-for-alpine-climbing?p=31805-0

or this one by arcteryx:

http://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?language=EN&gender=mens&category=Mid_Layer_and_Fleece&model=Atom-AR-Jacket

[Bob Moulder]

"…Patagonia water-resistant fleece??

No doubt there are many conditions where such jackets are perfect.

However, the problem is – as has been mentioned previously – that while exercising in wet conditions they are going to wet out just like any other insulation system (combination of outside in/inside out), and they are going to be much tougher to dry.

Also, with separate shell/fleece there are some dead air spaces between the shell and fleece which also add warmth value, which these hybrid jackets don't have. And also these jackets don't have hoods.

Sorry to hear about your High Sierra Monsoon! I think I could handle a day in such conditions, maybe 2 under extreme duress, but I'd be forced to take a zero day after that! Many moons ago some friends and I were attempting a Shuksan climb in early June and it was wall-to-wall rain and mist for several days. Never been so soaking wet and cold before (or since) in my life. Tent, sleeping bag, every single clothing item soaked to the core… needless to say, we didn't make it. Learned a little more about the weather patterns before returning to the PNW. Later did Baker, Glacier and Shuksan in late July/early Aug and it was spectacular.

[kevperro .]

I'm going to try some of the Tyvek pants. I have some Driducks with my modified ventilation in the crotch from the first time I bent over.

What is the weight on the Tyvek pants?

[Bob Moulder]

Men's medium = 56.8g (tyvek pants, US Plastics)

Driducks medium = 114.9g

I would estimate that the tyvek pants could withstand approximately 20 to 30 seconds of light bushwhacking.

[kevperro .]

LOL… I'll carry two. That way when nature calls I'll have a pair to get me into the bushes and another to get me out.

[Dave @ Oware]

Monsoon in the Sierra Nevada. Oxymoron.

Event, Goretex etc works for a long while but a couple hours of backcountry skiing in wet snow will get one soaked.

What worked well for me in winter on the coast of the Olympic Rain Forest with up to 6 inch per hour rain was lightest goretex with the light non-breathable workmans raingear over the top. Same in the Oregon Cascades in March. My friends used goretex with a poncho over that. In other words we were using fully waterproof gear instead of DWR to keep the undergarments dry. Condensation stayed outside the goretex.

Otherwise you need several underlayers of fleece etc to stay warm.

Pick your layers, waterproof or warm.

[Nico .]

I'm another believer in the warm but wet concept.

Pick a rain shell of your choice (eVent, Goretex, etc.) to help keep you dry and comfy for a while, but have proper base and mid-layers to add under the rain shell as needed to keep you warm as the jacket eventually wets out (and stops breathing) or you overwhelm the breathability of the jacket with sweat due to hard exertion.

This approach worked well for me in numerous continuous days of rain while tramping around the South Island of NZ on winter hikes about a decade ago. A thin synthetic baselayer and a light fleece under my rain shell were enough to keep my comfy (but eventually wet/damp) while hiking all day.

[Author]

Posts