Going to Glacier NP! Your advice?

You don't need a bear can, so if you can hang it (all GNP campsites have a hanging area set-up already), you can carry it.

Logistically, permits will be all over the map. Basically, the park service reserves half of its available sites in advance, and it leaves the other half available for walk-in, 24-hour availability. This is all available to see in real time at the GNP backcountry camping page. Look especially at the Walk-In Availability Chart and the Advance Reservation Availability map (a great summary of all the campsites with approximate mileage, but you have to click each site to see its calendar).

The best advice I can give you is dig around and see which areas of the park you want to explore, be very familiar with the available sites in that area, check or even print off the Walk-In Availability chart, get up early the day before you want to start your hike to be in line at the permit office by 6:00 (with peak season right now, 5:30 might not even be a bad idea–they open at 7:00), and hope to get lucky. You should be able to put together a 3-5 day trip without too much trouble, though your mileage may be uneven given the availability.

For you, landing at GPI near Kalispell, the Apgar Village permit office is your best bet. It's in the main village, across the street from a red schoolhouse building.

As far as hikes go, the northern stuff gets all the press. But don't forget about Flattop Mountain as a great route in and out.

"You don't need a bear can, so if you can hang it (all GNP campsites have a hanging area set-up already), you can carry it."

Well, that shows you how little I know about where I'm going (so far). But you just saved me a couple of pounds, so that is awesome, though I think I'll need to get an appropriate bag.

Can you also tell me the high and low temperatures that I should prepar for in mid-August? I see recommendations to be prepared for 30-90F, though looking at weather records, 40-80 seems more likely. I don't have a lot of gear to pick and choose from, but if I could take the Montbell Ex-light instead of the Alpine light parka and leave the fleece pants at home, it would help. Also, if I could stand to wear a light long-sleeve base layer during the day, I could cut back on sunscreen.

Thanks again.

30-90 is possible, but depending on how things go 45-90 is more typical.

Well, I can tell you what I do this time of year. I don't bother with any down insulation unless the weather forecast is unusually cool. That goes for camping up high and down low. Instead, I bring a knock-off of Patagonia's old Cap4 and wear it over my (very thin) long-sleeve shirt. If I need more insulation while in camp, I add a beanie and my rain shell (I never hike without it, though some will say you can get away with it). That's enough to get dinner ready and do camp chores. If it is unusually cold, I can also wrap up in my quilt if necessary. So far, that's never happened.

I'd highly recommend a full long-sleeve shirt and pants. Shirt for sun protection, and pants for brush, which can also get quite nasty. While we have lots of high, clear trails through some beautiful sub-alpine terrain, if you're below say 5000 feet, expect thick cow parsnip and thimbleberry brush. It was a wet snow year, so it's heavier and later than usual.

As far as appropriate bear bags, just bring any old silnylon or whatever stuff sack you already have. You don't need anything more, and unless you're going all the way to the Ursack (not necessary), it will be quickly shredded were a bear to get into your food (so long as you follow NPS instructions, basically a non-issue).

Enjoy the park. I'm heading in for four days this morning myself.

Clayton covered most of the highlights. The big one is get to Apgar early and have 4-5 different options written down so you'll be ready to rock when the office opens.

The Coal-Nyack loop is pretty cool. It's mostly in thick tree cover, including some gorgeous old growth, but largely lacks the big alpine stuff most come to Glacier seeking. Most of the Coal Creek trail is in a burn, and has some tremendous views of the most jagged peak in the park (St Nick). Most importantly easy access to the loop usually requires fording the Middle Fork of the Flathead, which as of today (~2200 cfs) is a bit above the level most people find acceptable. It will surely be below 2000 in a few weeks, which is good to go.

One unconventional route which might be doable depending on your groups mileage ability would be to hike from Cutbank to Apgar via Nyack. Up past Morningstar Lake, over Pitamakin Pass, down into Nyack, down to the Middle Fork and out to Apgar along the river. The fly in the ointment here is a lack of convenient designated campsites in the park along the Middle Fork, but all you have to do is find a place to cross to the west bank, where you can camp anywhere below the high water mark. Public transit (free NPS shuttle from Apgar to St Mary, pay Xanterra shuttle from St Mary to Cutbank) will get the logistics sorted with one car. These shuttles are slow, so be aware.

Good luck, and enjoy.

Thanks guys for the insight. We will be getting into Kalispell late Saturday night, but I'll still need to get a fuel canister and bear spray before we start hiking. Can I get those items at Apgar or nearby? It will help if we don't have to either wait for stores to open in town or go back into town after visiting the permit office. Dare I hope to find Jet-boil size canisters at a park store?

Any other advice that comes to mind? How are bugs this time of year?

Clayton, I hope your recent visit was a good one.

-Stephen

How late is late? You can for certain buy bear spray in West Glacier/Apgar. Fuel canisters I'm more doubtful on. What weekend are you coming in? I might be able to help you out with fuel.

Bugs will be present in lower, more forested spots, but shouldn't be too bad. A bugnet for your tarp is a good idea, but I wouldn't bring bug spray or a headnet.

Our flight gets into Kalispell around 8:30 pm Saturday. Not really "late", but I expect that stores would be closed by the time we get our rental car and get out of the airport.

We will be arriving on Aug. 16th (next Saturday).

Stephen, email me (dave at backpackinglight dot com) and we can arrange something.

Stephen, I just got back from a nice trip–much better than expected actually. My wife and I hiked from Walton (southern tip of the park) to St. Mary. It was a fantastic route with a lot of low and high country.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about a bug/inner net for your shelter. We brought one–mostly because my wife refuses to hike without it, but bugs were never a major issue. It still gets cool enough at night that they disappear by the time the sun goes down. I do always bring a headnet, and I didn't use it this trip. I'd probably still bring it again–especially if not bringing an inner–because it's good insurance if things are different wherever you're at.

As for bear spray and fuel, you can get both of those anywhere between Kalispell and West Glacier. The Glacier Outdoor Center has canister fuel, and it's on the outskirts of West Glacier. If you're going the alcohol route, you can find Everclear at several liquor stores (there's one in Kalispell–Flathead Liquor on Hwy 2–that's open until 10 and open Sundays, the rest close anywhere from 7-9 and are closed on Sunday).

If you've got any more questions, let me know. I have some work commitments in town this week, so I won't be heading into the backcountry again until probably Saturday or Sunday (might even see you at the permit office early in the morning–who knows).

FYI–you can now rent bear spray in Apgar. I believe it's about $5/day, unless you have to use it, then you pay for the can. In fact, the rental place is right next to the permit office in Apgar.

Depending on the days you'll be out hiking, it might be cheaper to go this route rather than pay $40 (give or take) a can. You also have to figure out what to do with it once you head out–they won't let it on the plane (obviously).

Just an idea to consider.

Thanks for the update, Clayton. I haven't used my TT Notch without the inner, but I keep thinking about trying that as a step toward using just a tarp. (Living in Houston, I just don't get many opportunities to experiment). My friend is at REI now and I asked him to pick up a headnet, so I'll have to to play with too.

I'm planning to take a Jetboil on this trip. I do have a Caldera Cone setup, but the Jetboil is just so easy and fast, and not terribly heavy.

If you are at the permit office Sunday morning, look for a very skinny guy – that's me.

Thanks for the info on renting the bear spray as well. It probably won't save us much money, but if some of the money will go to the park, that's an improvement.

Ah–Houston. I was born there and raised in East Texas. I still have family there.

Sadly, the bear spray rentals are not run by the park. It's a third party who gets your money.

Right now, it looks like I'll go in for a permit on Friday, so we'll miss each other. But I will try to check to make sure you can get a fuel canister in West Glacier on my way through town next. I'll update what I find here.

Dude… I have a Scarp and I never use my inner. Just the shell and a ground sheet is AWESOME!

I fully trust Clayton/ Dave on Glacier- they are the undisputed kings of Glacier on BPL (the Crowns of the Crown, I guess) Nobody else but me is dumb enough to even get on Glacier threads

I hiked there last year the last week of Aug and just used my Scarp shell and it was actually overkill. We have a 30 Deg quilt and we were warm/ hot at night and the days were only chilly from 5-6am while cooking. …Shouldn't have had to be up that early, but thats a story for another day.

I'm originally from The South (I capitalize that s*it) so I hear you about bugs and stuff, but we didn't have any that I know of.

+1 for no need for a puffy (subjective, though)

Our flight gets into Kalispell around 8:30 pm Saturday. Not really "late", but I expect that stores would be closed by the time we get our rental car and get out of the airport.

We will be arriving on Aug. 16th (next Saturday).

My related gear list post for this trip is here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=94087

Although I'm mostly debating the insulation choices, there is a link to the full gear list as well.

I'm really discouraged right now. I've been practicing trying to piece together walk-up permits for some loops or segments by pulling up the GNP "Backcountry Campsite Status" bulletin and pretending that the data there was what I had to work with when I got to the park. It is really hard to put something together, even allowing uneven mileage. There are several campsites that are hard to avoid, and it is these that are almost solidly booked and block an otherwise doable sequence.

Any tips or tricks?

Edit: a.k.a. "What do you mean I can't just make last minute plans to go to one of the best backpacking areas in the world and expect to get the best itineraries?"

Lets assume you don't find a long trip you want 24 hours from the start. There is a cut off point with the permit pick ups at which point it goes back into the pool. I have a strong feeling that many people book, but don't actually go. I was there last year and every site was supposed to be jammed packed. At best, they were 2/3 full but most of the time, they weren't half full. BTW, the northern circle is great if you can swing something there the day of. If you start your first hike up through flat top, it's a short hike, but decent elevation gain, you can easily do the wait and see game at the ranger station.

tt quattro, I'm interested in your suggestion, but I'm not sure I understand how this works. I think you are saying wait at a permit office until some cutoff time (when is this?), and if possible to pick up the necessary permits after that, then drive to the trailhead (Packers Roost) and take the short hike out to Flattop campsite for the first night? I think I get that, as the hike to the first campsite starting the other direction (from Many Glacier) would be 10 miles with a big elevation gain and loss.

I would love to get the north loop, but I'm trying to manage my expectations at the same time. How is the North loop going CW?

BTW, is it possible to park overnight at all of the trailheads along highway 2 on the south side? What about for the trails that start on the going to the sun road?

Overnight parking at all trailheads is just fine. The only problem is the Loop, which is typically full by 9am.

There is a time cutoff after which slots won in the spring lottery go back into the walk-in pool, but waiting that long seems a bit risky to me.

It is risky to wait… but if you haven't got an itinerary, there isn't anything else to do but wait. I don't recommend going with my suggestion as a primary, but as a backup. Just trying to keep your hopes high as you really can't go wrong with almost anything out there. Don't get dead set on an itinerary, see what's available and if it interests you. If it doesn't, pass, wait, repeat. :)

As far as parking goes, if you get the opportunity to leave your car somewhere, be it at the trail heads, another lot, etc, you can always use a combination of the free shuttle bus, many glacier's shuttles and/or hitch hiking.

Bottom line, it'll be awesome no matter what. It's a gorgeous place, front country and back country.

I'm going to Glacier as well in a week (we already have the backcountry permits). Random question. What is the soil like at the backcountry campsites? Is it good for staking or more like a a lot of front country sites with hard compacted soil that is pain in the ass to get stakes in. I'm wondering whether to bring my free-standing tent or a nonfreestanding trekking pole tent and what kinds of stakes to bring.

"…more like a a lot of front country sites with hard compacted soil that is pain in the ass to get stakes in."

That's a good descriptor of many of the more popular sites. Smaller, stouter stakes which can be beat on with a rock are a good idea.

MSR Groundhogs are my stake of choice in GNP (and elswhere). They have the stoutness to actually move small rocks (lots of them in the soil here), and I can bang on them hard. Every time I didn't bring them I've regretted it.

I do bring light Ti stakes, but only for non-essential points (such as mid-panel guys on my Duomid).

EDIT TO ADD: I only carry trekking pole supported shelters (TarpTent SS2 or Duomid), and I've never had any issues pitching on GNP sites. Though, a lot of them seem to slope a bit too much, so pay attention to that likely issue.

So, I picked up a backcountry permit this morning for tomorrow night. A buddy was interested in seeing more of Glacier, and there were a couple of sites available in the Belly River. I arrived at the permit office in Apgar at 5:10, and I was already second in line. I would have been third if someone else hadn't confused the permit office with the visitor center (he waited an hour-and-a-half at the wrong place, only to have a ranger ask him why he was there for so long). By 6:00, there were already six groups in line. The rangers in the backcountry office confirmed that this was pretty typical.

Often when I've done the walk-in thing, people are pretty chatty about where they want to go, so you can get a sense of who ahead of you wants what. We were pretty fortunate that no one who spoke up wanted the same thing. But keep in mind that there are three other places where they issue backcountry permits–though Apgar and St. Mary are by far the most used. So, make sure that you have a plan when they open so that you can quickly tell them exactly what you want. Some people lose sites by being indecisive and allowing someone else at another location to snap a campground up.

As far as constructing a route goes–just be creative and print off the website's map (the one from the backcountry brochure with mileage) and availability chart the night before (any time after 5 is locked in as-is). You can get some ideas from people there or just study it while you wait. I haven't looked out as far as your trip, but I saw some really nice long options while waiting and chatting this morning. Of course, I know the park pretty well, so finding those connections is a lot easier, but it's totally doable to put together a fun 3-4 day (or longer) trip if your flexible and creative. In my experience, most people tend to focus on one area of the park, hitting a lot of nearby sites. If you can think across the park and focus on connecting different areas, you can usually (though not always) find an empty site sprinkled in here and there to connect different park regions.

Also, I stopped by Glacier Outdoor Center in West Glacier on the way back home, and they indeed do have fuel canisters.

Good luck–let us know what you get.