Deconstructing the Marmot DriClime and Nikwax Anthology Light?

You mean like the Paramo Enduro being launched this year at OutDoor show?

http://hikinginfinland.com/2014/07/outdoor-news-2014-day-4.html

Besides that, I think the Epic silicone encapsulated fabrics are supposed to have this long-lasting DWR effect.

Indeed. I am doubtful they are going to make it my very tall size but that would be nice. And they are a bit expensive. And what windshirts are made with the EPIC process?

Enduro 350#+
Bora 100# + 80# 14.34+6.96oz= 21.3oz
Bentu 185# or 115# and 85#

Wild Things out of North Conway, NH uses Epic fabric for their wind shirts and pants. I own both and really like them! As with all Epic products it's very important to give it a routine washing to keep the DWR fresh. I've found that using an iron set on low with some steam rejuvenates the repellency wonderfully.

I don't think they are making those anymore and couldn't find anything like that on their site. I don't mind washing the Epic but having to use an iron on it occasionally might be a bit much.

I haven't been on their site in a while so the fabric might have changed. The tag on my Epic jacket suggests just a tumble dry to bring back the DWR but the ironing one or twice a year REALLY brings it back to just about brand new. The heat brings the silicone out of the inner fibers to the surface.

Coo, thanks for the insight.

My Driclime is 10 years old, so they may have changed it, but my Driclime was never highly water resistant. Less so, than say a Houdini. About 10 years ago this is what a "windshirt" was – a wind and slightly water resistant shell with a microfleece type lining, and they were all the rage, especially on here. For most people they were good while moving down to freezing, so very attractive to UL backpackers and for other minimalist activities.

Then apparently people discovered that there is even more flexibility having separate shell and fleece parts (seems like this is what the OP is taking about if I understand correctly) and this is why you barely see a discussion of Marmot Driclime, Patagonia Zephyr and the like anymore. In fact very few like that are made anymore. Like the story about where the dinosaurs went – they are still here, because they evolved into birds. Likewise pair what is NOW called a "windshirt" (a shell like a Houdini), with a thin inner insulation layer of your choice, like merino, and I think you have what you are talking about. It pretty much what many of us have switched to now for a while. You can mix and match already, more rain protection and/or insulation or less as the situation warrants.

Maybe old style windshirts like the Driclimb are the bell-bottom leisure slacks of our time – something we look back at and slap ourselves in the forehead over. I really loved my Driclime, and still have it. Actually I still love it, but I don't actually use it much anymore.

Paramo ANALOGY and Driclime liner fabrics are not actually like each other really. Quite different.

driclime is a 'shelled mico-pile' – just a basic tricot micropile lining fabric with a windproof outer layer. Very much the same as that used by several other manufacturers – e.g. Rab Vapourise, Montane Scarab liner, Snugpak TS1, Buffalo Active lite, Mountain Equipment Microtherm to name just a few.

the tricot fabric is commonly used on non-technical clothing as liner (often in reverse). Similar fabrics are widely available.

It wicks water well. DWR is applied to the face fabric only, and reapplication should be to the outer NOT the liner for correct performance.

Paramo liner is different. (light or standard weight) Unique to them. Or a few others under license -e.g
Cioch and Hilltrek – the former can do bespoke liner-only items if required, but the fabric is unavailable to buy.

It is constructed differently, and works in a different way to Driclime liner.
Paramo liner moves water much more actively and effectively and for optimum function needs DWR applied all through it as well as the face fabric.

A correctly proofed Paramo ANALOGY garment is functionally waterproof and offers wet weather protection to a far far far greater level than a Micropile lined shell such as Driclime.

I.e. If you would like to mimic Paramo analogy, you will only do it with a Paramo fabric- not micropile.
whatever the dwr of the shell.
Paramo do some clothing, which, when worn together with a dwr windproof layer, are claimed water resistant in a similar manner to their analogy clothing.

re longer lasting dwr.
I see this idea bandied about regularly on BPL. If it was easily available, don't you guys think it may have been taken up by manufacturers already? ;)

(Epic has been around for years, if it worked any better than other DWRs/ was more appropriate, then surely it would be much more widely in use.)

For the use I owuld put them to it would be similar. I am thinking about taking some seam sealant and thinning it down to coat a wind jacket with so that it will be a lot more water resistant but don't know how far to take down the seam sealer. It will impact the breathability some but that does not really bother me as I don't push myself to the point where I am sweating buckets. Thinking about doing that to a very thin hooded fleece jacket also. DWR is nice put I don't want to keep proofing something.

Brett. It seems to me that what you are suggesting is basically a fleece +epic windshirt combo which can be worn as separate garments?

That's fine. But it will be what it is. Don't think for an instant that it will be exactly the same as a Paramo Analogy Jacket in how it functions/performs.

Sounds more like a warmer Driclime but not as good at wicking or as breathable.

Maybe at that but can’t afford the $400+ for Paramo. If I encapsulate the fleece it might have some better water resistant properties and would be more long term than DWR. That and they are to be used with a tarp/poncho also so it will be fine I am sure. Might not be the most breathable thing out there but probably as good as most of the windshirts I have tried on in the last 10 years. And actually I think it will similar to how the Paramo preforms, just maybe not as good as it. I already have been using a thicker fleece with a wind jacket that used the Nikwax DWR/waterproof and it performs okay but the coating doesn’t last long. The water beards up on the outside or the fabric gets wet with maybe the outlayer of the fleece but my body heat usually is able to keep the inner part of the fleece dry. Still wicks some but then I don't try to sweat too much when it is raining so the wicking part really doesn't enter in.

I see. For use with a Poncho you won't need analogy style performance anyhow.

I have a nikwax analogy pump liner from Cioch. All it is is a micro fiber polyester shirt that is brushed on the outside and still smooth on the inside. Then its all treated with a DWR.

Any shirt that is similar, will do similar when combined with a windjacket that has enough initial HH.

The idea is that the wind jacket breaks the initial force of the rain, and the directional inner fabric that has larger fibers on the inside, going to the finer/smaller fibers of the brushed short pile/fleecy outside tends to repel water outwards by capillary action. Its sort of a reversed wicking effect.

I have wondered if a DWR treated Pat Cap 1 shirt, if its turned inside out and has a hood sewn on might work some too. It may be too thin, not sure.

But I've seen some other garments pretty similar to, but much cheaper than my Cioch pump liner, which should work similar once treated with a DWR.

Re: Epic and similar silicone treatments, they are the most durable DWR treatments. Why they are not more seen or used, I'm not sure. Doing it yourself is a bit of a PITA, its certainly easier to buy a spray or wash in bottle and treat a garment that way with another kind of DWR, though these are much more temporary. As far as commercially, perhaps there are patents involved that keep other companies beside Nextec from doing it, or perhaps expense, or just marketing issues.

Re: restoring EPIC's silicone DWR, deep cleansing once in a while with occasional but more frequent regular washing or even just good rinsing, and as Richard Nisley has pointed out, throwing it in the dryer will restore it just fine. I don't doubt the ironer does a good job, but not really necessary.

This may be of interest

http://drw.me.uk/RedYeti/2008/08/19/prototype-cioch-liner-jacket-truly-summer-weight-paramo/

a close up of the inside of the liner
worth reading the comments

Some good info, thanks.

80-85#s though for the pump liner jacket shipped is about $135-143.

It's interesting what Yeti said about leaking through the shoulders–i found similar with my pump liner combined with a Houdini.

Since the Houdini has an EPIC like silicone coating or rather "encapsulation" DWR, i beefed up the silicone coating on the shoulders and hood some, and made sure to get all the seams really well. Haven't had a chance to re try it out yet because it's been too warm.

According to those comments, Cioch (and also Nikwax?) apparently put a double layer of pump liner material in the shoulders to get around this issue–interesting. Either way, the point is, to have extra protection there.