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Gear spew from the Packraft Roundup

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David Chenault BPL Member
PostedJul 14, 2014 at 5:31 pm

The first annual Packraft Roundup, put on by the American Packrafting Association, took place this weekend on the west border of Glacier National Park. It was fantastic. I met a lot of BPLers, paddled some fun water, did some good hikes, got sunburnt, drank beer, played volleyball badly, etc. Official details are far from being worked out, but it's pretty certain that it will happen again next summer. If you want to meet more packrafters, or want to start packrafting and get a jump on the learning curve, it's a good use of time.

I also got to geek out on gear (of course), and what follows are a few choices tidbits and thoughts.

Alpacka is developing a sub 2 pound Scout. Many of us saw a proto. Same dimensions as the current Scout, which I own, and can attest is a very capable craft if staying dry isn't a huge priority. This will be a welcome (and more expensive) competitor to the Supai/Klymit/Flytepacker UL designs, which float but are otherwise unsophisticated and quite limiting. It would for instance be a great boat for the Grand Canyon, allowing you to ferry powerful currents and eddy lines with confidence, and even run some decent water so long as you don't hit any rocks.

Two Alpacka Gnus were in attendance, in both fabric flavors. I didn't paddle either, but those who did testified that it was quite maneuverable with one person (and a kayak paddle) and very fast with two paddling canoe-style. The center cargo reservoir is massive on it's own, and with a cargo fly the boat can probably swallow something on the order of 200 liters of gear. A very impressive piece of design.

HMG packs in full dyneema exist. It looks and feels similar/identical to the 4-5 oz/yard stuff Cilogear has been using for a while. I know from primary sources that this fabric is exceptional in its durability. Reports were mixed on whether these packs will ever be available to the public, so naturally I'm doing my part to ensure HMG gets an earful from the faithful on that particular subject.

Though I purchased and built a pack out of 150D hybrid cuben earlier this year, and have been impressed by the fabric, I remain unconvinced that the increasingly ubiquitous 50D stuff is anything more than 90% fashion statement. Exhibit A would be the large number of ragged, ugly Porters at the Roundup, with most owners reporting a not exacting enormous amount of field days in said packs. That the only two vertical seams aren't felled is beyond me, as every heavily used Porter I saw had visually obvious growth in seam holes up near the shoulder straps. I'm sure getting that stiff, almost-done pack to bend enough to fell the seam is a huge nuisance, but I don't see how seam taping will be an acceptable substitute.

I saw both the Stowaway Tough and Trekker drysuits in person, and both look good. The Stowaway seems to have solved most of the issues with the original by having a latex neck gasket and considerably thicker fabric on the pants. The hood on the Trekker is very nice, better than most rain coats. The neck zips into a neo and velcro closure, with a velcro flap closing the chin section of the hood. The wrists have a similar neo and velcro affair, while the ankles have a latex gasket and neo cuff over that. The supplied socks are fabric, with their own latex cuff which goes over the suits' cuff. Reports are that this arrangement leaks a hair after a few minutes of continuous immersions, but is still pretty darn warm. I just wish the waist zipper could be made to separate completely and still be watertight.

I'm almost ready to send my 2010 boat in and get a whitewater deck installed. Fiddling with increasingly not-sticky velcro, which leaks under the best of circumstances, has truly gotten old. Weight penalty be damned.

I'd still like to see a roots Alpacka with would be 5 pound or a bit less at Yak sized, with a deck, and the current level of durability.

I think there's a (small) market for a rescue PFD which is not stupid heavy/overbuilt like the Astral Green Jacket.

In conclusion, and as always, knowledge is a better investment than gear. The swiftwater rescue class held Friday was a very satisfying use of a day. Like a lot of packrafters I don't have much whitewater experience apart from packrafting, and this instruction addressed a few holes in my knowledge and experience which should have been filled a few years ago. Most likely we'll push to have one again next year.

PostedJul 14, 2014 at 7:09 pm

Thanks for the update. I too am not a huge fan of the 50d cuben hybrid in a load carrier. However, HMG now offers 150d cuben hybrid in black and it is a much different fabric, as you know. Heavier but far more robust and seemingly takes stitching better.

PostedJul 14, 2014 at 7:28 pm

Is 50D cuben the same as 2.92 cuben? Or is that the 150D cuben? Sure wish folks all talked the same language!

And thanks for the report!

PostedJul 14, 2014 at 7:37 pm

Hadn't heard of this before, but in looking at it…what a beauty. I've always preferred kneeling and canoe-style upright paddling (comfort, visibility, etc), and this looks like it could be used as a solo craft as well as a tandem. Fast, too, to the point where for primary paddling routes on slow rivers or long lakes would be a no-brainer to take ahead of their other models even with the weight penalty. Sadly out of my current price range by $700-1000. Kind of still want a Scout…but the Gnu is my lottery winning choice.

PostedJul 14, 2014 at 7:42 pm

I believe the 150D is closer to 4 oz per sq yard but I defer to Dave. The 50D cuben is the 2.92 fabric.

PostedJul 14, 2014 at 9:25 pm

I'm also getting a little turned off to the 50d cuben stuff. It's not up to hard, long use. On the seam issue though, a good counter measure to BOTH the fashion aspect and stitching expansion is the application of Aquqseal to the outside of the pack. It's not pretty, and boy does it reinforce the stitching: win-(lose?)win. :)

The VX21 in my Unaweep is good on the outside, but I've worn through the lining fabric layer in a few spots. Again, Aquaseal to the rescue.

I'd love for Alpacka to finally offer a light deck on the Scout and Curiak. My wife has a Scout and it's a little dumb that I need to build a deck for her when her only transgression is being a petite woman, and yet her sentence is no factory deck. Where's the justice?

I'd love to see pics and more details from the meeting. TIA.

David Chenault BPL Member
PostedJul 15, 2014 at 5:53 am

Yep, 50D is 2.9ish oz/yard, and the 150D cuben hybrid is about 5.3. Makes more sense to me to talk in denier, as we don't use overall weight to discuss any other type of fabric.

Philip, the inner scrim on my VX21 and VX07 packs suffered a fair bit, especially along the bottom sides. Never seemed to amount to anything other than cosmetic damage.

PostedJul 15, 2014 at 10:24 am

Didn't know the 150D was that heavy. Makes sense though. Very different 'animal' compared to the 50D.

Brendan S BPL Member
PostedJul 15, 2014 at 2:47 pm

Nice.
So the lighter scout is just a lighter material?

I'm still kinda puzzled why full dyneema isn't available in more packs. Yeah, it's pricy, but D40/DX40 is about the same price as hybrid cuben and has plenty of dyneema threads for a bomber pack if it was woven dyneema in both directions rather than dyneema/polyester. In an email last year DP said that adhering the full dyneema is difficult hence the polyester. I have to think that the huge premium that Cilo/Mchale charges for full dyneema is to cover minimum orders or something because there's no way that the small amount of fabric used for a pack (well under a yard) costs the premium charged to customers (~$500 in the case of Cilo over same pack with DP fabrics). An extra $50-75 over hybrid cuben would be a reasonable actual-cost premium and sell like hotcakes I'd think.

David Chenault BPL Member
PostedJul 15, 2014 at 3:34 pm

The proto UL Scout had a lighter vectran material in the tubes, and a much lighter urethene floor. Not sure what they'll end up with eventually. Doom was very enthusiastic about the performance characteristics of the Vectran, by his claim even at lung-inflation pressures it results in a much more rigid (and thus faster and slicker) boat.

Agreed on the absurd upcharge for woven dyneema.

David Chenault BPL Member
PostedJul 15, 2014 at 8:00 pm

morganscout

Here is a photo my wife took on Sunday's trip. Morgan Rucks, a distinctly non Scout sized person, running Kintla Creek rapid on the North Fork in our Scout. Warm weather does have it's benefits.

PostedJul 16, 2014 at 1:50 am

I went through the original HMG ice pack pretty quickly (warranty issue) and went for the upgrade to a full dyneema ice pack with ski straps on the side of the pack. I've spent a bit too much time injured already this year, but I've got a number of days/trips with it climbing/packrafting/skiing and the fabric definitely seems on a different level durability wise to the other stuff. Too early to say much, but I'm hopeful it'll last me a long time and serve a lot of roles. I'm not sure why they let me order the pack, but I think the topic came up when I told mike that I wanted something more durable. I was psyched when I first got it, and when I asked him if I could blab about it here, I got no response. But I figure I could mention it here.

PostedJul 16, 2014 at 9:00 am

"Philip, the inner scrim on my VX21 and VX07 packs suffered a fair bit, especially along the bottom sides. Never seemed to amount to anything other than cosmetic damage."

Once the scrim is gone it seems to expose the waterproof laminate between the layers (if I'm understanding the sandwich nature of the fabric's construction correctly). I figured a thin smear of Aquaseal to protect this would be prudent. So far I like it better than 50d cuben in any case, but time (and branches and ski edges) will tell.

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