The same question as before with a little more detail…which pack would you choose if you were me?

It's no surprise at all — at this early stage — that you don't know what volume you need or what pack weight you will end up with. You should realize that deciding on a pack before you even know what you will be packing inside is a shot in the dark at best.

Since you are new to backpacking, I highly recommend that you look at all the other gear pieces first — or at least the major pieces like tent, bag and pad. You've got your bag already, so start looking at tents and pads. Select your pieces judiciously — keeping in mind that the pieces should fit your needs individually AND ALSO work well together as a system. After you have made your decisions, you will have a much better idea of the type and size of pack needed to carry your gear.

How do you select your pieces judiciously? A very good place to start is reading up on backpacking. I highly recommend two books — both of which will introduce you to good gear pieces — individually and systematically:

The Backpacker's Handbook – Townsend – 3rd edition
The Ultralight Backpacker – Kestenbaum

Once you have an initial understanding, you can either rent your major gear pieces (nothing like real-world experience to help determine your real likes and dislikes) — or buy them outright.

You've listed some really popular backpacks. But until you go through the exercise described above, the responses you are likely to get will be what works for other people! That can be very helpful in narrowing down your initial choices, but it's not enough for you to make a final decision. Hope this helps.

Your advice is certainly sound and has certainly been handed out to me in large doses!

I take the advice FULLY! I've purchased my bag and I already know what tent I'll be using for some time. It's the REI half-dome 2 because my girlfriend has it and since we'll be together we'll split the weight between the two of us. My stove (MSR pocket rocket) and Cook pot (evernew Ti .9 which I may replace with an MSR ti kettle) don't take up much space.

I've got some clothing from patagonia (capilene base layers) and a rainshadow rain jacket which both compress pretty well. My aquamira drops take up barely any space as well as my various first aid/misc. items. So yeah, basically the tent is going to be the biggest thing in my bag. The Platypus 2L pouch may be a close second. Eventually I'll switch to a tarp/bivy or tarp/tent combo, but not until this coming Spring. I'm waiting to purchase a sleeping pad because I feel my pack choice will affect my pad choice.. GG nitelite, Torsolite, z-lite..something like those..

The one thing I can't judge is food. I feel like food and clothing will take up the most space in my pack. This is wehre my issue comes in. Also, I don't know how to PACK bags. No one seems to make such a big deal over compression, but I don't understand how it doesn't affect them. I've pretty much assembled a large portion of my gear and it seems easy to fit into most bags that I have mentioned. My clothing may throw me a surprise as I assemble a more compelte set, but for now I see myself with a decent (if not very basic) backpacking setup.

I just don't know how much volume to expect is necessary for week long trips. How much food is should I consider taking/day? These kinds of questions are what I need to figure out and I want a bag versatile enough to allow me time to make mistakes in packing too much food etc… Than I want that same bag to be there once I get my crap together…

Good questions!

When I started to investigate lighter options, I too, was given advice to assemble from the gear first, then the pack. This is excellent advice, as the weight and volume of gear will dictate your choice in packs.

First a caveat: I can hardly be considered Ultralight. There are a lot of people on this board who better represent the UL and SUL ethic. That much said, after buying a bunch of new gear, I did buy a new pack. I picked up a ULA Catalyst and it's worked very well. It's quite comfortable as long as you don't exceed 35 pounds in my estimation. At this very moment I am about to leave for a six day trip at Olympic National Park, and I can tell you, that the pack is pretty much full.

I have a Six Moons Designs Lunar Solo E tent.
I am bringing two pairs of socks (one for sleeping), merino wool top and bottom, a fleece cap, a North Face HyVent Jacket, polartec gloves, and an admittedly bulky (but warm!) REI fleece top.

Add to that a UL Western Mountaineering Versalite Super (overkill luxury item, but I have trouble sleeping in a lot of clothes), a 3/4 Them-a-rest pad (luxury item) and a Ursack to hold the food and fend of the bears. Besides other small items, I am carrying an admittedly heavy MSR MiniWorks EX filter (oh, the next generation weighs half as much and supposedly filters way faster) and an Evenew 1.3L pot and MSR SuperFly stove and a cartridge. Finally, there are things like a medical kit, digital camera, and a bit of rope. Two 1.5 Liter wide mouth Nalgene soft-sided canteens rounds out the list.

Honestly, I think it's pretty easy to underestimate how quickly one can run out of volume in a pack. Obviously, my sleeping bag takes quite a bit of volume compared to some other choices. Also the fleece top is bulky compared to high loft garments. That will likely be replaced someday.

Finally, ULA is off the grid until December, when they will fire back up. But they make great packs. I switched from an old Dana Designs pack I adore (but was heavy) and haven't been disappointed at all. I would have been disappointed, however, had I tried to put my 10-year-old gear into the pack, as it would not have fit and even if it did, would have been far too heavy.

Onto the food question, this is a question that can elicit a thousand opinions. Calories are the name of the game, and depending on your hiking style, weight, height and distances traveled (and weather), you will be burning a considerable number of calories. Obviously, a lighter pack means less exertion and thus, less calories (however, a lighter pack can also mean more miles traveled, and thus the same amount of calories can be burned.). On shorter journeys (say, less than a week), running a calorie deficit is an option if losing weight isn't as much an issue in the short-term. On long trips, calorie management, from my understanding, becomes a paramount concern.

Have fun shopping and do solicit the advice of the senior members on this board. They have great, practical advice and are always willing to share their knowledge.

Dirk

Andrew:

You are welcome.

As tedious as it is, you should consider factors such as food. Especially on longer trips where you have more to pack, different types of food will have vastly different weights and occupy enormously different space/volume. Read up on the various postings on the "food" branch to get an idea of options, and feel free to ask about weights and volumes.

Another important factor — which you may or may not know for sure until you hike a few times — is your own packing style. Here's an example. The REI Half Dome 2 is a relatively big loaf in relation to your other gear pieces. Do you prefer hanging your tent outside of the pack (which means you can get by with a smaller pack but need one with straps outside) or do you prefer everything inside the pack (which will require a bigger pack and maybe one with a separate bottom compartment)?

Given so many factors and variables — again — I would buy everything else first — then maybe rent a pack for a trip or two — before finally parting with my cash buying one.

I know this does not answer your original question … but I would strongly recommend taking the Half Dome back to REI. That thing weighs an incredible 91 ounces and you can easily get a lighter weight tent. If your GF insists on a real tent, then go for the REI quarter dome. It weighs 68 ounces and will save you over a pound. If you want to stretch, there are even light options such as Henry Shires Tarp Tents. Just something to consider before you get to attached to the half dome.

Andrew:

Not necessarily endorsing Phil's recommendation — but this is a good illustration that if you buy your pack too early — before everything else is truly settled, you may end up with a pack that's a mis-match with the rest of your gear.

Imagine if you have purchased your pack — with the Half Dome 2 in mind. Now, if you should return the Half Dome for another 2-person tent that's significantly smaller and lighter, then you may well end up with a pack that's unnecessarily big and heavy for you!

If you are like most of us, you can expect to swap A LOT OF GEAR after your first one or two or three trips! There are just certain likes/dislikes that can't be determined accurately until you've made a few trips. This is why I recommend (1) getting everything else first and (2) RENTING a pack the first couple of times.

Ahhh! Don't you guys know what it's like to be excited?!? :)

Now for the tent thing, I know the half dome 2 is a big boy. I don't plan on using this tent for long though. My girlfriend bought it for our car camping adventures and it's served us well! She has a Bora 75 or something so she has plenty of room and doesn't mind the weight at all. She's a real trooper! :) Split between the two of us the tent won't be such a big deal. I'm not planning my pack around it because I plan on using a tarp/bivy combo later on.

Now all my excitement aside, I can't buy all my gear. I really just can't. No matter how good the deals are, I can't afford a tarp and bivy right now. I also can't afford great shells and other clothing items. I want to start backpacking! You must understand right? I know it might not be smart, but it's a concious decision. I'd rather make a $150 mistake on my pack than delay my backpacking pleasures (or displeasures which I will learn about). See I have $500 to spend and I've spent $363 on my bag, stove, pot, and utensil and clothing. So my pack is gonna put me over my budget. I know it may save me in the long run to wait, but I'm antsy! All this being said, I guess I'm gonna make a mistake, but what is the wsiest mistake to make? :)

We'll "make some decisions" for you. :)

My first response was going to be one of the ULA packs — either Catalyst or Circuit. But ULA is closed for the season, and if you need the pack quickly — then my next choice would be the SMD Starlite. And why is the Starlite behind ULA? Actually, both ULA and SMD's have gotten rave reviews — but I just don't like purple! You see the subjectivity in all this?

Rave reivews aside, I like both the simplicity and the flexibility of the above packs. The internal frames are good for carrying moderately heavy loads. And for shorter trips/lighter loads, you can simply remove the frame when it's not needed and lighten your load even more.

Ok – if you really can't wait here's what I would do. No matter how much research you do, you will probably not like your first pack. I've been through at least 12 and still have not found one that I am 100% content with. So, basically your first pack is an experiment. You need to physically put it on your back, fully loaded, and walk around for miles before you start learning how it fits you, what features are important, what realistic load / weight capacities you need, etc. There is a very strong possibility you will not like your first pack and you will need to return it.

With that said, you should buy your first pack at REI. Given you have a half dome, I'm assuming you have reasonable access to an REI store. Go there, try on some of the lighter weight packs and then you'll have a much better idea of what fits you. REI sells the Vapor Trail which is similar to the Ozone. They also have some fairly decent "UL" packs that may be worth considering. I found that the Gregory Z pack fits me well (but is too heavy for my needs). It is on sale 50% off right now at rei-outlet.com. You may also want to try out some of the lighter gregory packs. REI even stocks the GoLite Jam2 which I would suggest as well.

So, after you've picked your pack at REI, take it for a trip or two. Once you've learned what your likes / dislikes are about the pack make your second decision. If you like it, keep it. If not, return it. REI is awesome, no questions asked. Now, come back to the table and do some more research. Consider some of the other packs that others have mentioned. You will be able to make a much more informed purchase.

My point here is that 'pack requirements' are highly subjective. Everyone's body is different. You will probably not like the first pack you buy. You might as well get some insurance and either rent it or buy from a place with a good return policy.

Ok…This is good advice that meets the kind of middle ground I'm looking for. I had ordered a Nimbus Ozone a week ago from a local store (for $150 brand new) but I suppose I can order the same bags to REI and then be able to return them. I can stand this wait! So it's done, I'm going to order a vapor trail, or maybe a vapor meridian, or both! for now and see how I like it. Maybe later I'll check out a Jam2 or something.

Thanks for putting up with such a beginner everyone! I can't wait till I'm exprienced/it's been long enough for me to gather all my gear! If only I was rich! :)

Thanks again and any further advice is still welcome!

For lightweight packs in that size range I would look at:

Gragory Z55

Granite Gear Meridian Vapor

ULA Circuit

I agree with everyone, but might add that once you've narrowed it down to two or three, pick the one with the most capacity. Over time you'll probably be like everyone else and downsize, but you'd hate to have to plan for a shorter trip because you can't fit your neccesities into the pack you choose.

The only other way is to do what everybody says, put out a weeks worth of gear and food and see how much space you need.

Enjoy!

I am by no means an expert, but when I began making the switch from regular backpacking to UL earlier this year, I went out buying things (like the Pocket Rocket) thinking – "Hey – this is great – look how light it is!" I spent a ton of money at REI, really fast, before doing any solid research. After reading a few books and spending hours on the internet (and this site) I realized that what I was buying was not going to get me a base weight of under 10lbs (which is what I wanted). So I returned almost everything I bought from REI, realizing it wasn't really that light-weight. I now realize there is practically nothing I would buy at REI, except maybe Platypus bottles and accessories.

So I guess my piece of advice is not to rush out and buy a lot of gear until you have had some time to see what options are out there and do some good research. It'll save you a lot of time returning items you wish you didn't buy.

Au Contrare!

Looking at the bigger items:
Several of these Several of these shelters work
a couple of these packs would fit into a 10 lb base (too bad they don’t sell the GG Virga)
Several sleeping bags under 2 lbs here
No shortage of light pads (can’t seem to get that hyperlink to work here) and there are light kitchen options there too.

Once you get the above taken care of, the rest of the path to a 10 lb base can be completed by carefull shopping guided by “if in doubt, leave it out”

Look Mom! The big three plus rain gear under 5 pounds all from REI*. This may not be the best UL gear to buy, but it can be done.

Oh, looks like Jim and I had the same idea. :)

*Note: Technically this list comes in at 5 lbs even. I say 'under' because I assume one can tweak the gear to shave a few ounces by removing unneeded tags, straps, etc.

I live within walking distance of an REI, so I never search their website much. The store is a big one – but they don't stock any GoLite, any Granite Gear packs, and a few other things that it looks like from their site they do sell. They do stock the Integral Designs ponchos and shelters…

Oops!

Oh yeah – I did get my Esbit stove there too.

I appreacite all the advice and debate going on! So far, REI has been great to me. It feels niec buying somethign that I Can return at ANYTIME for ANY reason. It takes all the pressure off.

I've ordered the Vapor trail to try and I've bought the REI subkilo 20 so right now I'm at like 3 1/2 lbs. That's not so bad in my eyes. It is my first set up after all so I will shave weight as I gain experience. It's nice because at anytime I can just return the gear and get different stuff. I basically treat REI as a rental shop. :) I'll have no qualms bringing my bag back and saying "It's been used for a long time and I want a new one..money back please!"

I will have to look into their tarp and bivy selection. I don't have the money now, but in a few months maybe I can save up for a peice and in half a year maybe I can have them both. That's all stuff to look forward to.

So Thanks for all the advice! Any advice on any matter is greatly appreciated! For now I'll try what I've got and se ehow I like it. Than as I learn more about my needs I can be more choosy. For now I'll just play at REI and return as needed!

Thanks all!
Andrew

I have a McHale pack. They cost a lot but they may be worth looking into for you. I noticed on their site they posted that a woman just set a new record for doing the Long Trail in Vermont with one of their packs. They believe in using stays too. I am so happy with mine I would have no reason to replace it with another. They are custom and McHale really takes care of you.

I agree with Sumi. Though mine is a large Panel loader due to carrying my large and medium format cameras, McHale makes great, expensive, extraordinarily comfortable packs.

Rich

Andrew,
Many words of wisdom in the above posts. I would only add 2 things: 1) If the idea of a McHale pack sends a shiver of delight down your spine, wait until you've reached some sort of gear equilibrium-they're pricey, but will last darn near a lifetime and there probably isn't a better pack out there for comfort. 2) If you're going the tarp/bivy bag route, don't bother with REI-go straight to Mountain Laurel Designs, or maybe Oware. Ron Bell makes great tarps and bivy bags at reasonable prices, with great customer service, partly compromised these days(temporarily, I hope) by long delays due to lack of capacity to meet demand. I hope he sorts it out, 'cause I want an Event bivy soooo bad….

Methinks a McHale is beyond OP's price range — which is just as well.

WHY some people keep steering newbies to Mchale is utterly beyond me!

Maybe gear selection is all "second nature" to ye old timers here — but I myself was a spanking newbie just 4 years ago, so I still remember very well what I went through. I researched meticulously for all the gear pieces and purchased what I thought was the best "balance and compromise". Well, it was the best that I knew how!

And then I went on the first hike of my entire life! And then the second trip. Only afterwards, did I realize what my real needs — and true preferences — were! I am sure I spent a lot more time studying and choosing gear than most newbies, but I still ended up swapping out three of the "big four" — my bag, tent, bunch of other things — then the pack itself since it was no longer a good match after all that swapping!

I greatly respect Dan McHale. But Dan can't read minds, and in any case, newbies just don't know what they want in most cases!

Thanks to Ebay and REI, swapping out my gear was easy and I lost very little money. But if I had sprung for a $700 customized Mchale as my very first backpack — I doubt I could get all my money back trying to sell it here or on Ebay — if I ended up changing my mind (which would be a high likelihood given what little I knew back then).

Hi Ben,

Here is a case and point that I did not go back to the beginning of the thread. However, it may be something for the OP or other BPL member to consider for the future.

Rich

Hi Richard,

I see. Yeah, that makes sense. Now that I know more about my own needs and all, a McHale is mighty tempting for me too! :)