Connected on the trail

Pmags,

I'm certainly not advocating that everyone should carry a safety device. I'm firmly in the HYOH camp. I don't care what someone takes with them, what clothes they were, what color their shelter is, etc. I do have my pet peeves in the backcountry. Late night gunfire, aggressive dogs on the lose, etc. I just think they are a valid choice for those who want them.

I also like to get away from contact. One of the big attractions for backpacking. I work on a computer for 45-60 hours a week and am oncall every fourth week. And when I'm not oncall I still get called on things that I'm the SME for. So I do want to get away from that and backpacking is just the trick

After using a SPOT for years, I switched to an inReach earlier this year. I think the 2 way communication will be helpful in a non-911 situation (I've had one these when I hurt my knee and bailed to an alternate trailhaed) and even in a 911 situation. So far, I use it just like my SPOT. I send an OK message when I get to camp. My wife is the only one with the contact info and she's only sent a test message.

I leave a detailed itinerary (and now include info on alternate trailheads). But what I found great about the SPOT is I'm not as tied to the plan. If I wanted to change my plans and take a different route, I could. I'd change course and send 3 messages as I headed the new way. Now, I can simply send a message saying where I'm going although I haven't done that yet. But I like the ability to think "Hey! I wonder what's down that canyon?" and go off trail/itineray to find out. For me, it's even more freedom. After all, what good is leaving an itinerary if you aren't going to stick with it?

"). But what I found great about the SPOT is I'm not as tied to the plan"

It is always a rough plan and never detailed. She understands it is more like I will be in this valley or drainage and not exactly this spot.

Glad you found a system that works for you.

On the other hand, I am very glad I found a system that works well for my wife and I, too. :)

OTOH, I do see more and more societal pressure to stay connected 24/7 if possible.

So it goes.

Interesting discussion!

The subject certainly brings up issues tied to the concept of "freedom", like Mags' wife, for whom (because she lived behind the Iron Curtain) the idea of a tracking device is (logically) scary. Here in the US, we're not used to thinking that way (although after the NSA scandal, maybe we should start, LOL). I've always said that America is a country where everyone screams about privacy rights in theory, while they blab their most intimate secrets to everyone in the grocery store checkout line!

Technology is the ultimate double-edged sword, isn't it? It gives you the freedom TO DO lots of wonderful things, but it is also a tether that PREVENTS you from being really free.

Personally, if I'm alone, I like to take a phone (in airplane mode). I may not have signal, but it makes me feel more secure… I've thought about a SPOT, PLB, or InReach, but haven't gone there yet, even though I hike in an environment of rattlesnakes, crumbly rock, killer bees, and killer heat.

"Rather than buy an 'security' devices why not take a wilderness medicine course. Rather than take a phone to update your sig other why not educate them that wilderness is not a scary place and it will not eat you up the first chance it gets. A person has a better chance of winning the lotto than they do getting injured in the backcountry and not be able to rescue them selves."

I would suggest that the recent Hein incident on Mt Goddard puts paid to your position definitively. All the wilderness medicine training and first aid equipment in the world would not have allowed him to execute self rescue. A PLB would have facilitated a much speedier rescue and prevented a situation in which he narrowly avoided the loss of a leg due to infection. He was very lucky an SAR team happened on him when they did.

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"In climbing, I have witnessed a body recovery and been involved in a rescue but in the past 25 years of being on the trail backpacking I have never seen anything more than a nasty blister. Hopefully this remains so. I understand the risks in the vertical world and see the value in a Spot, I just have never felt the need for one when backpacking widely used trail systems.

The main point I was trying to make, and doing a poor job of it, was people today use technology as a replacement for knowledge. Technology as a safety blanket, so to speak. When I worked in an outdoor store, people lined up to buy GPS who had no idea how to use a map. They had no interest in learning to use a map and compass. They just wanted to push a button. And, thus begins the electronic lobotomy."

Thanks for the follow up, Rog. It puts your original post in a more comprehensive context, and much easier to understand where you are coming from. A fair number of us here spend a substantial amount of time off trail in places where, as you put it so well, things are a crap shoot and the price to be paid severe if you roll snake eyes. My guess is that is where you ran into disagreement. I doubt I would carry a PLB either, if all I did was trail hiking. FWIW, I have no other personal electronic devices to clutter up my life, either in the backcountry or civilization. Not even a cell phone. I guess that's pretty extreme, too, but I sleep peacefully, secure in the knowledge that I shall never experience a self inflicted electronic version of the "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind". ;0)

I see no reason to obsess over what other people do in the backcountry as long as they don't unreasonably impose their electronics on me. If you decide to spend your time updating your Facebook status instead of watching the world around you, well your loss not mine.

There are some trails I've been on where I can pick up a cell phone signal an hour+ before reaching the trailhead. That's a force multiplier in an emergency.

Leaving 4ish ozs of insurance in the car on a trail with a cell phone signal is a little silly.

The other part of it is how invincible you think you are. It's one thing to clear out the clutter of "packing your fears," such as two knives, three changes of clothes, etc, but if you've ever been touched by tragedy it takes on a whole different perspective.

A gentleman from my hiking club in Chicago who was very experienced had gone on a solo trip to the Holy Cross Wilderness, left his itinerary with his fiancé….and when he did not show up at the exit point on time she called SAR. It took them a year to find his body. Established trail, experienced hiker…notes from his journal suggest he may have been ill. Another hiker scouting for campsites found his stuff – his body was 120 feet away. Would everything have been different if he'd had a SPOT? Or something like the delorme dropping breadcrumbs every hour or so?

On a highway of a trail in Michigan I had to call 911 (thankfully my cellphone had reception – a rarity actually) when someone I was hiking with starting having a stroke. And again thankfully I was familiar with the loop because the 911 operator had NO idea where I was and only by my remembering fire roads and the highway where I had parked my car was she able to figure out where to send my call for help.

Yes, i get it that this is really rare…but I still buckle my seatbelt in the car. Why? because it's such a stupidly easy thing to do and COULD make such a huge difference in whether I live or die, that the cost-benefit ratio just isn't really even debatable.

FOR ME, carrying 6 oz in my Delorme is that stupid-easy thing. It's SO not a big deal, and heaven forbid I need it, either for myself or for someone else, it's there. No, it's not 100%. But neither is wearing a helmet, nor my seatbelt, etc. but I still do those things.

+1 to Jen's (and Randy's earlier) posts. It isn't always about a trail accident. Seemingly healthy people can all of a sudden up and have a heart attack or some similar medical event. It happens. There's a lot of anguish from loved ones when a person can't be found – having to wait for closure is not a way I'd want one of my loved ones to live. You know, when I get a loved one and all…. :-)

I thought this was enlightening…

http://news.distractify.com/culture/craigslist-surveillance-restaurant/?v=1

Very funny Jennifer. They said that very politely.

I was at Restaurant. 20 somethings were next to us. They both had phones they were staring at and manipulating with their thumbs. Sometimes they were talking and laughing over the top of the phone to the other person. Sometimes one person was focused on phone, other person sitting there sort of bored.

On the way out I noticed half the tables had a phone on the table.

I, a Luddite, spend too much time staring at computer at home and don't feel need to do it the times I'm not at home. If I was still working and spent less time at home I might feel different though.

Interesting world we live in…

I'll agree about PLBs, etc. I can honestly say my PLB has never affected my "wilderness experience".

As for being unconnected on the trail, my cell phone remains off or in airplane mode, so whether or not there's signal is irrelevant to me (I feel no desire to live-tweet my hike). However, I don't particularly feel the need to "get away from it all". I like my daily life in the city. And I like backpacking. I go backpacking because I like hiking around the woods, exploring, sleeping outside, spending lots of quality time with my dog, and fishing. Not because I feel the need to get unconnected. Perhaps if I did not go so often I would feel the need to be unconnected more strongly.

I think it's interesting how people view electronic technology vs other technology. Many people who eschew "electronics" even being in their pack are out there carrying some highly technical gear (cuben fiber, titanium, etc). Don't you feel some sort of connection just by using this gear?

A few years old but still relevant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/technology/16brain.html?pagewanted=all

Jerry, I'm a 20 something and I also dislike how people my age are glued to phones like zombies. Even some people who are my parents age are the same way.

Regarding phones, I use mine extensively in the backcountry. It usually stays in a side pocket and comes out often. I use it for taking pictures, pulling up maps, gps navigation, and reading ebooks related to tree/plant identification. I don't find it distracting. It's just a more convenient way of doing things. Even if I did have a cell signal and internet connection in the back country I wouldn't use it much.

"It took them a year to find his body."

Just last month, it took 5 days for SAR to find & recover a body below Whitney. Who knows if the gentleman was still alive after his initial fall, but succumbed to exposure over the ensuing days?

The kid who just survived the broken leg on Goddard is lucky as hell. No permit, no itinerary, no PLB.

I always travel solo, in the high Sierra, and many times off trail. I finally got the InReach SE; my wife is very happy. I think the most important feature, like Spot, is the tracking capability. In my case, any potential mishap will most likely be a fall. If you're not in any condition to hit SOS, the lack of movement will pinpoint your last known location.

The two-way feature is also nice, because you can confirm a message is sent, or send little updates that you're stopping for the day, etc. Bringing her virtually into the trip makes her happy, thus makes me happy, and gives me (slight) license to continue solo trips.

I don't mean to be "dissing" 20 somethings or anyone : )

I'm not really judgemental of people doing things differently. If it's fun to be constantly on the smart phone, fine with me. I do things other people could judge me for.

Pmags wrote:

"Perhaps it is being irresponsible. Maybe.

But I tend to be more conservative when solo in terms of technical pursuits. And I'd hate to think we are getting to the point that someone is considered irresponsible just because they choose not to be connected. I realize a PLB is fairly innocuous."

Looks like you and Andrew have something to debate around the fire on you next trip.

From Skurka's recent Sierra gear list post on his site:

SPOT Gen3 w/batteries 4.0 $150 Nowadays, irresponsible not to have one

I don't agree. Just thought I'd stir up trouble. :)

"I don't agree. Just thought I'd stir up trouble. :)"

At least you're doing it responsibly…..

Justin or any one what titles do you take with you on tree and flower identification… l would like to take something like Sierra Nevada Tree Identifier and
Laws Field Guide to the Sierra Nevada, but they do not seem to come in an e-format… I recently picked up the Yosemite Wildflowers app and really like it but want more scope…

re: Skurka and spot

A lot different to be responsible for paying clients vs me by myself :)

Michael, if you have an iphone your problem is solved. You can get one of the very good Audubon apps.

http://www.greenmountaindigital.com/audubon-guides.html

The bird one is especially excellent, including song recordings. I use it more than my Sibley guide. There is a tree one, and a special package for California that includes everything, birds trees mammals, flowers, fish, insects, etc. There is at least one (non-Audubon) Sierra specific guide app at the moment for Wildflowers. If you want to get more that a couple of these I think you can buy the whole kit'n'cabootle for North America for I think $15.

Its true that there are not a lot of ebook versions of nature/tree guidebooks yet. Shame, since it seem like the ideal format.

Ah looks like they have andriod version as well now.

Pros: if connected to a weather app, one could be more prepared and the almost real time blogs of thru- hikers are pretty neat. Cons: peering into a screen or waving the phone in the air while trying to find a signal … instead of hiking

I "cut the cord" on my home service a while ago after realizing watching the Bourne trilogy for the 48th time was just being lazy – since then I've rediscovered the Complete Walker and gotten more chores done, allowing for more hikes (packing today for a weeklong trip in fact).

Makes me wonder what everyone is missing peering into little screens on a summer hike? Maybe a cell phone isn't as much of a distraction as a television … but you never know. Gotta get signal

Posting from a coffee shop and avoiding the reruns, political ads, and repetitious news stories designed just to get your blood pressure up (until Xmas shopping season, that is)