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lightroom vs aperture for a noob


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  • #2118334
    Daniel D
    Spectator

    @dandru

    Locale: Down Under

    I've got Lightroom but prefer Adobe Bridge / Camera Raw. Bridge is the file manager for Photoshop, so if you've got Photoshop, just use Bridge / Camera Raw for awhile.

    #2118355
    Adam White
    BPL Member

    @awhite4777

    Locale: On the switchbacks

    Okay, to add a little more confusion:

    For working with RAW files, you can try RawTherapee. I've been using it to work with my RAW files, since the software that came with my camera won't run on Linux.

    There is a bit of a learning curve to it, but I suspect there is with any RAW editing software. That being said, it is probably easier to get help or find tutorials for Elements or Lightroom than RawTherapee.

    Lastly, I also use GIMP, and can second that, well, it works great for me.

    Now, take all these opinions with a grain of salt, because although I've used the tools mentioned above extensively, I haven't used Elements/Lightroom/Photoshop extensively, so can't make very good comparisons.

    #2118510
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    You guys are killing me!!!

    Yes, Lightroom has the 30 day free trial, and I can buy it outright for $79. I'll play around with it and see if it has what I want…..but now I have too much to think about.

    #2118573
    Ethan A.
    BPL Member

    @mountainwalker

    Locale: SF Bay Area & New England

    Adam, how difficult of a learning curve would you say there is to GIMP? Heard it could be more challenging than Elements, Photoshop or Lightroom, though it's a powerful tool.

    #2118592
    Greg Mihalik
    Spectator

    @greg23

    Locale: Colorado

    Jennifer,

    OK, going out on a limb here – – –

    IF the "photo bug" from the film days refers to the struggle to get well exposed/balanced photos,

    IF "blending and layer" means combining images (versus the wide exposure range of High Dynamic Range photography),

    IF "exposure on the sky blended with this other pic" also means combining images,

    IF RAW is attractive because it gives a lot of control over color temperatures, exposure, burn/dodge, etc.,

    THEN Photoshop Elements($60) will get it done easily. It can manipulate your color curves, brightness and contrast, shadows and highlights, transparent layers, dodge and burn, and much, much more.

    Other programs Will do all these things and more as well, but if you bought a Sony 'cause you "… have more money than willpower", you should consider the ease of Elements versus the others. If you want to spend more time hiking than post-processing, you should consider the ease of Elements versus the others.

    If you work your way through Elements and find it lacking then you can spend the big bucks and the massive amount of time required for the others. And what you learned in Elements will apply to Photoshop or Lightroom.

    Apologies if I'm reading too much between the lines.

    […. and, I know nothing about the Mac world, except that there are a gazilllion apps out there, and one might do most of what you need. Define that need, then post a query.]

    #2118611
    Ethan A.
    BPL Member

    @mountainwalker

    Locale: SF Bay Area & New England

    Which of the desktop photo editing programs, Elements, Lightroom or other, is the desktop equivalent of Camera+, an amazingly simple and fast camera app and photo editor available on iPhone: http://campl.us/ In seconds it allows you to take a photo, make it look better with many effects and corp, rotate, etc.

    #2118625
    Michael L
    BPL Member

    @mpl_35

    Locale: NoCo

    Id start with lightroom. I use it photoshop and gimp. I had gimp before i got the full creative suite. Not bad for free. But 95% of the time I only use lightroom.

    #2118630
    Ethan A.
    BPL Member

    @mountainwalker

    Locale: SF Bay Area & New England

    Greg and anyone else that has experience with both, how does Lightroom compare with Elements?

    Jennifer I'm very interested in this question too. I have no need for full blown Photoshop and want something easy and quick with intuitive UI.

    #2118738
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    Greg, you actually are pretty spot on in your assumptions!

    I used to be a film camera buff – I even had my own BW darkroom! really enjoyed playing around with both the shoot and the development. Then came digital, I got caught up in other stuff and other than still getting great joy from getting a cool shot, I haven't done much with photography since.

    Really getting into backpacking again has really rekindled my interest in photography. I'd always used Nikon's version of the Canon G12 series (Mine is a P7000) and it works quite well, but I really missed having more control over things (it really was awful with RAW – way too slow).

    So I've got a new Sony RX100 iii on the way to play with the bigger sensor and better lens, as well as be able to shoot RAW and get back into the post-processing side of things. Just not sure where to start on the back end (meaning the processing part).

    Ideally I'll make the leap to a true DSLR, but I didn't want to invest THAT much unless I knew I was going to do something with it. This high-end point and shoot should help me decide if the big investment would be worth it.

    #2118742
    Jeremy and Angela
    BPL Member

    @requiem

    Locale: Northern California

    I'll cast another vote for Lightroom. A few years back I picked up Aperture 2 and found it quite nice to use. However, ongoing support and development is key and it looks like Apple is not going to be doing that. Both programs provide the key functions I'm looking for: managing a large collection of images and photo-oriented post-processing tools.

    DSLR? These days the main reason I'd use one is if there's a specific lens need. I.e. Something faster, wider, or longer than a compact can provide.

    #2118752
    Greg Mihalik
    Spectator

    @greg23

    Locale: Colorado

    I have not used Lightroom. But a "Elements versus Lightroom" search turns up a lot of hits.

    First Hit

    I would venture to say that even if I had experience with Lightroom, it would be only of marginal use to you. The above review is far better than anything I could provide. Especially when I consider how narrow my needs are. (Years ago I did a lot of graphics using both Photoshop and Illustrator. I know how little I would use of Photoshop now.) I see that he has also done a Photoshop versus Elements review. So between the two you would get everything from one perspective.

    Far better to do your own reading, looking for the features that are near and dear to you.

    #2118768
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    As previously mentioned, I'm in a similar boat at the OP with the exception that I don't have a photography background at all and have never worked in a darkroom (well once but I don't think a single experience in Cub Scouts circa 1979 counts).

    Now that Aperture is out of the picture (pun intended), the sales pitch that given to me by people who work at a professional or near professional level, is that Lightroom is a great program with good workflow for managing a high volume of pictures that just so happens to have great photo editing capabilities as well that most people find to be more than satisfactory for their needs.

    For me, I'm buying Lightroom 5 first and will keep using Gimp until I find that the two are not enough for me. YPMV.

    #2118941
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    Greg, that was a great link, thanks!

    It does seem like LR will be the way to go for me – and I'll try to buy it outright I think rather than pay the subscription (especially since you have to pay for a year upfront…what's the upside there?)

    My new camera should arrive today, so I'll be spending my weekend learning how to use it and having some fun with pictures!

    #2118943
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    Jen… would be interested in your first impressions of the RX100iii.

    not just the photos, but the physical attributes of the camera.
    Is the pop-up view finder flimsy and likely to be damaged?
    Can it be set to NOT pop up?
    Same questions for the pop-up flash.
    How is the grip on this small camera?
    How do you feel about not having a longer zoom?
    Any other observations…

    billy

    #2118972
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    sure Billy – will do. I've read so much about this one and other similar cameras I'm just ready to start playing with one. I thought about going mirrorless, but I thought this would be a good start before I get into buying lots of lenses.

    I really liked my Nikon P7000 – odd size (too big to be UL, but not powerful enough to even compare to DSLR or even the mirror less) – so I'm looking forward to trying out the larger sensor, the wider lens and yes, the viewfinder!

    #2119204
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    OK Billy…

    Right out of the box, and a few hours of playing around this morning, so take that for what it's worth.

    HOLY CRAP THIS CAMERA IS AWESOME!

    The pop up viewfinder is actually incredible. It's a real viewfinder with real readings inside – and I actually really, really like using it. It doesn't seem flimsy at all, as a matter of fact nothing on this camera feels flimsy. If anything it's damned heavy for its size.

    You have to physically pop up the viewfinder – it won't pop up unless you actually manually pop it up.

    Same with flash. Just like any flash, you can force it on, or turn it off. There is a great deal of control here.

    For me, and I think I have huge hands for a woman, the grip is fine. I find that I'm actually holding it like a real camera, whereas my Nikon P7000 I held out in front of me like a point and shoot. this one almost requires you to put one hand on the lens (and I find that I like the twisting wheel on the lens) and the other just like you would any other.

    I'm not much of a zoom person, so I won't miss that. For landscape I find I much prefer a wider lens – but that's one reason why I'm considering the jump to mirrorless – wildlife of course needs a zoom. But 90% of my shooting will be fine with this lens.

    I'm just terribly impressed at how easy it is to use; my Nikon is only 4 years old but it seems like a junker compared to this little guy!

    #2119211
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    Thanks for the speedy report Jen!!!

    "You have to physically pop up the viewfinder – it won't pop up unless you actually manually pop it up"

    Interesting because the review I read recently said the viewfinder was hardwired to popup whenever you turned on the camera. Reason that bothered me was I figured I would want to grip right where the viewfinder is located. What do you have to do to 'physically' pop up the view finder????

    Would also be interested to hear just how effective that viewfinder is in very bright light.

    And looking forward to your further observations…

    It might be asking too much… but… it would be most interesting to see two pics of the same subject matter… one taken with your RX100iii and the other with you P7000 to compare side by side…

    thanks much,
    Billy

    #2119236
    Ian
    BPL Member

    @10-7

    Yeah I'm finding that I use my 16mm (24mm equivalent) prime 99% of the time when I'm backpacking with the A6000. Not sure I'll bring the zoom with me again.

    Have fun. Looks like a great camera.

    #2119338
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    The viewfinder has a little toggle switch on the L side of the camera (where the viewfinder is) that pops it up, then you have to pull out the eyepiece a tad. It has a nice diopter on it, so that is VERY helpful with my eyesight! My prescription sunglasses are polarized, so if I take a vertical picture I can't see the screen unless I lift my glasses up…but then I can't REALLY tell what I'm shooting! This will make a world of difference.

    The shooting I did in the backyard yesterday I did in super bright texas sunlight. The LCD screen did pretty well, but the viewfinder was superb! It's nice because you can pop up the viewfinder and nothing happens until you put your face to it – then the LCD goes dark and the viewfinder kicks on. You move your face away and the viewfinder goes dark and the LCD comes back to life. Very convenient – and the viewfinder is a real, honest-to-goodness electronic viewfinder – not a simple glass hole you look through to get a weak approximation of your shot. It has a good amount of information in there, including displaying many of your settings (just like on a DSLR) as well as a nice horizontal level. There is a reason the reviewers keep saying great things about the viewfinder – it really is great.

    The downside is that I'm afraid I will be using it a lot – but it's a much bigger battery drain on a camera that apparently isn't all that great with battery life anyway. And on a 23-day trip I need to be careful with that.

    I'm taking the Chuckster on a hike this afternoon so I'll try to compare pix. My Nikon took GREAT photos; my main complaint was my level of control (or lack thereof), the inability to shoot RAW (it would do it, but it was too slow to be functional), and my difficulty with seeing what I was shooting in many situations.

    #2119432
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    "The downside is that I'm afraid I will be using it a lot – but it's a much bigger battery drain on a camera that apparently isn't all that great with battery life anyway."

    Jen… are you saying that the eView Finder uses more battery than the LCD screen??

    Since it's so much smaller my guess would have been that it would use less…

    thanks for all the feed back on this Rx100iii
    Billy

    #2119463
    Jennifer Mitol
    Spectator

    @jenmitol

    Locale: In my dreams....

    Yes on the viewfinder burning more battery than the LCD – but only based on what I've read. I've not had nearly enough time with it to even come close to burning up a battery by myself just yet (my niece went with me on my hike – so no time to take pictures. sniff sniff….)

    The specs that come with the camera also report about 100 fewer pictures with the viewfinder than just the LCD.

    You may hate me – but I have to say I'm SO impressed with it so far. I can't wait to put it through some real testing. I have to say that I'm not even having second thought/buyer's remorse that I expected after spending so much money on this camera.

    The reason I went with version iii instead of a much cheaper (and FAR lighter) version 1 is because i really wanted the viewfinder and I much preferred the lens on this camera. If those things are not of great importance to you, you may want to check out the earlier versions…..

    #2119469
    Billy Ray
    Spectator

    @rosyfinch

    Locale: the mountains

    You may hate me – but I have to say I'm SO impressed with it so far

    Hate you???? Never….

    Green with envy… it is so!!!

    Billy

    #2133682
    Chris Chandler
    BPL Member

    @chandler325i-2

    Locale: lost angeles

    Jen–

    I've tinkered with both for personal use and use Photoshop a lot at work. I work in television post production so I deal with a lot of pro/prosumer software like these, and recently went through the same decision process when deciding how I wanted to deal with my photos after returning from Patagonia. Like you, I was coming from a Mac ecosystem. I found the interface on Aperture much easier to use, and found that with less work, I could get my RAW photos to look really nice (most of the time, I actually prefer the full-size JPEG that comes out of the camera fully processed, and only dip into the RAW for heavy edits). Lightroom could do more, but I opted for Aperture for it's speed and ease of getting a finished product that I was very happy with.

    Like someone mentioned before, Aperture is on the way out, so in that regard I chose the loosing horse (Apple has mentioned a lot of those features will be rolled into a singular Photo program; iPhoto+Aperture, essentially. The libraries are interchangeable, so it seems feasible, but execution could be another story). Adobe products are always pretty crummy user interfaces, but incredibly powerful once you learn them. Some huge advantages that Lightroom has is that there's a lot more extensive third party involvement, so it's support and "translation" of RAW formats is better than Aperture and is more future-proof in that regard. It also auto-detects dead pixels, which are very common on DSLR cameras that have huge chips. Often, in Aperture, those dead pixels show up in the photo and you have to paint them out (they look like a bright red dot). I painted a LOT of these out of those Patagonia photos… Lightroom detects those and using fancy maths gets rid of them automatically.

    For overall photo adjustments and library organization, either program will work. It all starts with deciding upon a workflow and method of organization and sticking to it.

    With the technique you mentioned of combining parts of different photos together (called "compositing"), regardless of which photo library app you choose, I'd recommend Photoshop for the compositing. Take some time to learn how to effectively use masks. Masks allow you to clip and edit parts of the photo in a way that's non-destructive and easily editable. It's something I've struggled with for a while but had to learn it to do something for work recently, and now that I have the hang of it I find it very easy and useful. It also allows you to "paint on/off" effects easily. Limitless possibility once you learn how they work.

    Send me PM if you want more info on the masking technique. It really is the crux behind working in Photoshop properly. I can probably track down the youtube tutorials and articles that I learned from because I was doing it just last week

    chris

    #2136129
    Mike In Socal
    BPL Member

    @rcmike

    Locale: California

    EDIT: I just realized that Pixelmator was already suggested.

    Hey Jennifer,

    If you are interested in a full-featured editing app, check out Pixelmator. They offer a free 30-day trial and the app only costs $30. This was a low-cost option for a good editor without committing to a subscription service.

    Most of my photo editing involves color correction, exposure, contrast, lighting and for that I use DxO Optics Pro. Check out their Site. DxO does automated lens distortion correction, lighting and sharpness adjustments among other things and you can apply changes to batches of photos. I don't get into creative image editing but I want my photos to look as close to what I saw when I shot them. DxO can do some amazing stuff especially if you shoot raw image formats. DxO also offers a free trial.

    When it came to Aperture vs Lightroom, I bought both about a year ago to see which one was easier to use. I really preferred Aperture's interface and workflow much better than Lightroom's.

    Mike

    #2136547
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    I had Photoshop and Lightroom on a Windows machine. Recently I bought a Mac and bought Lightroom for Mac. It is identical to the Windows version.

    One very important thing about Lightroom is that the edits do not change the original picture (RAW, JPG, etc.). It just records your edits in other smaller files and leaves the original file intact. Also it is easy to go back and undo the saved edits.

    Disclaimer: I am not any kind of expert on pictures, cameras, or technology.

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