personal experiences about warmth of uninsulated air mattresses

[David Franzen]

In short: what are your experiences with uninsulated air mattresses regarding temperature/insulation?

I own a TAR xtherm, which I currently use all season.
Recently I've been thinking of getting something lighter for summer.
I really like the packability of inflatables, so I'd like to avoid CCFs.
Since I do not camp much in the summer, I was thinking weather I really should spend the money for an TAR xlite or similar, or if it is enough to get an uninsulated air mattress.

something like this (78in x 24in, 10 oz):

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ultra-light-280-axeman-ul-outdoor-inflatable-cushion-four-seasons-sleeping-pad-moisture-proof-pad/956116587.html

Do you have personal experiences about the warmth of these kind of air mattresses?
In what temperatures did you use them? What kind of quilt/sleeping bag did you use?

I know the theory: These kind of air matresses have an R value of 1. I understand what this means in terms of Richard's article (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/9378/index.html), that thermal insulation's values are additive, etc., etc. I can do the math on these things. Still I'd like to know some field experience.

If there is a thread covering this, then a link is all I need. Unfortunately I could not find anything.

[Valerie E]

Last August (mid-to-late August), I used an un-insulated Klymit Static V in the High Sierras. I also used a women's 15F Helium down sleeping bag (the 15F rating being, IMHO, grossly exaggerated!), and I was inside a tent with my husband. [Now you know the conditions of use.]

I am a very cold sleeper, but I never had a problem. At our "lower altitude" campsites (below 10,000ft) I never noticed/thought about the lack of pad insulation, even camped on a large rock next to Evolution Creek.

At a couple of higher campsites (Bishop Lake and Wanda Lake — both +/1 11,500ft), I could feel a slight coolness emanating from the ground — right through my sleeping pad and bag. It wasn't enough to keep me awake, but it was there.

So, as long as you have a warm enough sleeping bag, I say "no problem"!

[jimmy b]

This April we did some BPing and day hiking in Zion NP.

For the days in the campground I was on a Nemo cosmo non insulated inflatable and BPing I slept on my Thermarest Xlite. Both were in a WM Versalite. I cant recall the exact temp but I can tell you I am a cold sleeper (skinny bugger with no body fat). I can also tell you that Im good to go with a mid weight base layer and a fleece beany down to at least 23F so far with the Versalite/Xlite combo on unfrozen ground.

A couple nights were a bit chilly at the campground and I tossed and turned a bit with an uneasy sleep one night. We had a couple inches of snow at the N part of the park that evening but just rain at our elevation. I couldn't understand why I was getting chilled until I remembered the pad I was on was void of insulation. The next night for kicks I slept on my Xlite and all was right in the universe again.

I have used the nemo for years for mid summer camping but I must have hit its limits with my cold tolerance. When I returned from the trip I used the EMS lifetime guaranty to exchange our pads with the same but with insulation. I of course don't use the Nemos for BPing but they are sooo comfy when we are camping out of the rental car.

YMMV but I hate being cold, especially if I could have prevented it by packing or purchasing differently. A little overkill beats not quite cutting it any day IMO.

Good luck in your decision, jimmyb

[John Klinepeter]

Back in the old days (1970's and 1980's) I just used a TAR foamy self-inflatable with an R value of probably 4 to 5 in temps from about 0*F and higher. I can't remember having been cold. When I resumed backpacking about 14 years ago after a long dry spell I continued the old style (heavy) packing for a couple of years and then started thinking about weight reduction.

I bought an uninsulated Big Agnes inflatable and used it with a sleeping bag rated to about 30+/- *F. With low temps in the 30's*F I was able to sleep but not very comfortably.

The following year I added a 1/8 inch thick CCF to the air mat, and under about the same conditions, I slept better but was still not happy. From my notes I see that I used this pad combination for a couple of years so I must not have been too unhappy. The second year, however, I used a slightly warmer sleeping bag.

At some point I used the above two pads plus an additional 1/4 inch thick CCF. Finally I was approaching, but not quite achieving, my comfort zone. This would be about R 2.5 I think.

I conducted an unintentional experiment a few years ago. It turned out to be VERY revealing. My pad combo was original NeoAir + 1/8" CCF + 1/4" CCF along with a 15 degree quilt. Ambient temps in the 30's. I slept warmly until half way through the night when my upper back became cool (sleeping primarily on my back). What the heck? I was warm from mid-chest downward. I examined my pad arrangement and noticed that the CCF pads had slipped toward my feet about 6 inches; they were originally set to neck height. I pulled the CCF's back up and slept well after that.

I have since moved on to using a TAR Women's Xlite plus 1/8" CCF successfully down to the low 20's F.

My guess is that my comfort level with an uninsulated inflatable would be about 40 to 45 degrees F. Since I usually sleep in slightly colder temps I am not certain of this number.

If you purchase the indicated mattress please let us know your findings.

Edit: I can't spell "and" and two other clarifications.

[Stephen Murphy]

I use this setup as well. Bought the women's Cloteen because I am 5'-9" and a side sleeper and this pad was long enough (66") and had a 3.9(if I remember correctly) R rating. Does anyone know the R rating of the 1/8" EVA pads? Mine is from Lawson.

[alan genser]

i've been just about comfortable on a klymit static v with a 30deg down quilt ( nemo cosmo duo), long pants, ibex indie hoodie, smart wool socks, and a patagonia nanopuff down to low 40's.

not toasty, but comfortable enough. any lower would be pushing it for me.

i got the klymit static v because they were super-cheap on sale ($44 or so).

i'll definitely be picking up something along the lines of the exped ul7

[bjc]

Lawson says .75 R rating for the 1/8" pads.

[Roger Caffin]

> If there is a thread covering this, then a link is all I need. Unfortunately I could
> not find anything.
Try a whole series of technical articles which go into the subject in great depth, starting with
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/airmat_sotmr_part1_2011
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/airmat_sotmr_part2_2011

Cheers

[USA Duane Hall]

If you consider a NeoAir being uninsulated, I've been fine with my original, short, NeoAir, temps down to the single digits F, but on dry, decomposed granite. It is my fair weather, three season pad, the original, still going strong, used mostly in the Sierra. I've used it on snow but with a CCF pad underneath it, in temps in the teens F.
Duane

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