Fabric suggestions for hot summer bag (using a liner only)

I have used 1.1 oz uncoated nylon – light, quick dry, cheap
open weave shirt weight poly-wool blend -not sticky, super breathable, bit of warmth, no smell

Nobul2 would work so much better than 1.1 nylon. It's light and soft and fits your bill.

@David
I've got some 1.1oz nylon laying around that's calendared so I'll probably just try that.

I'm very interested in the poly-wool blend but I couldn't find it at two of the fabric stores that are along my commute home last night. Any idea where I can find something like this and what it costs?

@Aaron
Definitely getting some Nobul2. I've actually still got 2 yards of Nobul1 sitting around that I was going to make a 50F down quilt with and Nobul2 would be a great outer shell for it…could kill projects with one order :)
The DWR treatment is a slight concern but I'm only only losing an inch around the perimeter if it doesn't work out and I can easily re-use the fabric.

Thanks a bunch to the both of you!

Nobul2 is horrible for down filled quilts.
I made that mistake with one of mine and I wake up each morning with hundreds on little down plums on me.

Argon, Nobul1, or Pertex GL are the way to go, I personally like Argon (like the price to).
M50 works great as a shell if you cowboy camp or sleep under a tarp, that is unless you are a big guy and sweat a lot.
Stick with the other 3 for everything else.
I wish EE would sell his 10D. It's between Nobul1 and Argon, but just seems like its more durable feeling or something.

I thought I had Nobul1 for down bag but might be Nobul2. Leaks a lot of down, but I think it will take a long time before enough leaks to make the bag significantly colder.

There might be a difference between batches of Nobul1 and Nobul2.

Nobul2 is advertised to have thicker coating so should leak less down.

I think the next time I do a down project I won't use either of the Nobuls. After all the time and money to make something, I don't want it to leak down.

I also have a vest with Apex and Nobul1 – that works great.

Too bad, because Nobul has a nice feel. Argon from dutchwaregear is probably good too…

I am skeptical that argon would leak down too because it's so lightweight.

***| Comments on Nobul and Down |***
I've experienced it first hand with a cold weather quilt (rating is probably between 0F and 15F) I made a year ago. It does leak a bit of down but not horribly so. In my opinion, it's more of an annoyance of getting lightly coated in down and having to clean that up than it is a concern of losing warmth over time (I'd expect no more than 1-2g per night and I overstuffed the quilt quite a bit).

I ordered some Impetus 1.0 and 1.2 from DIY Gear Supply: http://diygearsupply.com/product/impetus-1-0/

I'm going to stay away from Nobul2 for now…only because I've already got Nobul1 (non-DWR version of Nobul2).

I'll also get some Argon from DutchWare and try that out as well.

After my testing is over I'll be re-using the fabric in some summer down bags/quilts for friends/family. If any go unclaimed I'll probably throw them up on the forums for sale.

Most other replys are about the down-proof-ness of quilt/sleeping bag material but if you're asking regarding a light inner sheet that you might sleep in by itself on a hot night I think nothing beats silk for comfort.
I'm a hot sweaty sleeper (sorry for the detail) living on the east coast of Australia with hot and humid conditions in Summer.
Silk wicks perspiration, is cool but also paradoxically warm in cooler temps, packs small and light.
I buy PURE silk sleeping bag liners on eBay from Vietnam (make sure its not a synthetic blend as sellers use the term "silk" for this as well…
They're very fine light weave and a fraction of the denier of many brand-name silk liners sold in the outdoor stores. I cut them down to a loose-ish mummy shape (no hood) and thread some thin low strength shock-cord through the top hem.
I climb into this with the lightly elasticated hem around my shoulders before lying under my quilt (or not if its hot).
In a quilt or alone, the sleeping comfort is luxurious and there's no sticking to the sleeping mat underneath. Rolling over, the silk rolls with you and the quilt stays put.

I also made a summer-weight down "blanket" from Nobul-1 and a very small amount high grade down (900+) in narrow (7cm) sewn-through baffles. This is good to below 15C degrees if the temperature drops in the night. With the high grade down the Nobul-1 has barely leaked at all.

Hi Benjamin (is this a common Aussie name btw?),

I agree, silk is nice stuff. A bit contrary to your nice holistic post, i would actually like to try the silk-poly blend material. However, finding out the specific ratio of silk to polyester from these south east Asian companies on Ebay seems to be a problem! I messaged one company to ask, and never heard back, and more over seemed to have been blocked from even ordering anything from them.

More specifically, i would love to try a blend that is around 60 to 55% polyester to 40 to 45% silk. Increased durability, and better wicking, and hopefully a bit tighter weaved. I've had some pure silk liners that had durability issues, though silk is a surprisingly strong fiber–especially for natural fibers.

For hot weather applications, silk-nylon blend would be much better– bit cooler and less stinkier. In this case, higher nylon percentage to lower silk theoretically should prove to be quite nice. Something like 70% nylon to 30% silk would be awesome for hot weather. My experiences with nylon and tencel blends for hot weather for shirts is also really good, but that involved significant moisture in the form of sweat. I've heard that when sweat is not involved, that tencel actually tends to be on the warm side because it has a lot of little nano micro fibers that branch off the main fiber which is still pretty small–hence, it traps a lot of air, in a sense very vaguely like down or feathers but obviously without the stacked loft effect.

JP,

Nobul2 is just the highest quality lightest 10d fabric that Ti-Goat could find.
It breaths well, it's soft, and has a light DWR. It's an okay density and is probably around a 370T (thread per square inch).

Nobul1 is what came from a group BPL buy of a few thousand yards order.
It's very very soft, has good texture for its lack of density and is probably around a 220-250T (not good).

I made an order on some special fabric that was a soft 1.05 ounce 20d 420T fabric.
I would consider 370T a bare minimum to use with down and 420 to be even better.
Anything less will leak down.

I would guess that Dutchware Argon is around 400T.

The hard part about getting a hight "T" fabric is that if you don't get a good calendering or you have too heavy of a cire (DWR) it ends up like M50. M50 is a great fabric. It probably has a 450T and a good cire but not a great calendering.

Pertex GL has a decent calendering and cire with a good T.
It's weave is ideal for good ware and tear and makes a good shell, but its ripstop weave just isn't as soft as Argon or Nobul1.
Since Argon is very soft and has a high enough T count, it works excellent as a liner, but can also work as a shell.
It just doesn't have as good of a DWR as some others, so a lot of people go with other fabric.
I believe the choice between Nobul and Argon is and easy one. Argon is a better material.

However, for a synthetic liner, Nobul1 is the way to go, hands down. It is very soft.

Aaron, what you said doesn't seem to match the info at Titanium Goat whatsoever..

The below is from http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Fabric.html

"Nobul1 is a light weight 10×10 denier fabric with a cire finish on one side and a DWR coating that makes this fabric suitable as shell for down products. Water repellent, and has good breathable characteristics, so it's even better for linings. The less shiny side is the "finished" or right side. .67oz/sq yard. No limited quantities.
…The Kelly Green (formerly KG-8D) was chosen by the BPL DIY crowd for a group purchase…

Nobul2 is the same base fabric as Nobul1, 10×10 denier with a cire finish and coating on one side. It has a more substantial coating on the cire side. This makes it more water repellent and more down proof. Suitable as a liner
for down products and even better as a shell. colors: Black… In Stock
Finish: Down proof cire finish and coated
Construction: 10D x 10D Nylon
Width: 60" (58" usable)
Wt: 76 oz per sq yd
…In Stock…
Price: $10.95 per linear yard … sold in full yards
Grey

……. (Justin's insert/summary, updates to correct confusion about the Nobul's being a 10 D fabric vs 8 D as they were originally called, in error because of the manufacturers faulty info to Titanium Goat)

Update 8/12: Another name change. We will soon be releasing a second version of the Nobull fabric. So to
clarify the difference between the two, the names have been modified to "Nobul1" and "Nobul2" "

So Nobul1 and 2 are essentially the same fabric with 2 having a heavier DWR coating and thus being a bit heavier. For a liner, DWR is not important, or even advantageous at all really. The other difference is that Nobul1 is both cheaper than Nobul2 and Argon.

While it might not be ideal for down quilts, it's seems great for a lot of other things. I would use it as a liner material.

Ok, I am mixing up Nobul 1 and 2.
I thought both were 8d instead of 10d.

JW wrote: Hi Benjamin (is this a common Aussie name btw?)

Pretty much, there are herds of us down here, 'tho most are referred to as "Ben".
The name appears to have escaped its religio-cultural origins many decades ago and is now found wandering across ethnicities, faiths and no-faiths…
But I digress!

Getting personal again, I find in warm clammy weather I can't tolerate the feel of even the finest wicky-techy synthetics on my skin, especially when trying to sleep.

Regarding the NoBul-11 conversation, I'll just reiterate that I've tried a number of the various light weight fabrics from the usual suppliers (not Argon yet) and NoBull-1 has the softest & and most pleasant tactility.

Herds even, Crikes! I'm not sure why i even asked that to begin with to tell you the truth, but thank you for the feedback. Would love to check out your country someday, but likely won't ever be able to afford too.

If you like silk for hot sticky-humid weather, you would absolutely love pure and either high quality, or aged linen (both tend to be softer than the other kinds).

Truly nothing better for hot, humid weather, for it's even cooler and more wicking than silk. However, don't think i've ever seen super light weight linen liners before. Linen, like silk, is a pretty strong fiber for natural fibers, but i've yet to see super light weight linen fabrics that aren't completely sheer or more mesh like. It's heavier than silk unfortunately. Density of silk is ranges from around 1.31 to 1.38 or so, and linen like 1.5 to 1.58 (on a side note, holy moly i just read on one site that the tenacity of linen fibers is even greater than some nylon ones?!??)

Perhaps a blend? Hemp is a lot like linen (though tends to be more coarse), and i have seen hemp-silk blends around.

Course, i don't see why super light and thin nylon fabrics like Nobul1 or Argon wouldn't work pretty good.

For those of you who have used these….which would you make a hot weather synthetic blanket/quilt out of?? In terms of the best feel against the skin during those hot n' sweaty nights……

Because NOW i'm all confused…..

I finished the Nobul-1 liner last week.

I went with a 2/3 zipper and a snap at the top. I also made a cuben fiber stuff sack.

The zipper weighed .3oz, stuff sack is .15oz and the liner material itself is 2.35oz:

My fiance agreed to model the liner on the condition that she could make a weird pose…what a goofball :P

Turned out that the "redbull-sized stuff sack" was actually a bit larger than needed. Oh well.

Things will be put on pause for a week or two so expect a lull here. I'll be working on the Argon and Impetus 1.1 in a few weeks.

Jennifer,

I would use Nobul 1 out of those three. IMO it has the best feel against the skin although I wouldn't be afraid to use any of the three for that purpose.

Ryan

JP, i love that pic, tis pretty goofball/odd. It looks like someone arrested her ("put your hands up"), then shot her immediately after and put her in a body bag.

Nice work and nice weight btw. Why a stuff sack, just curious?

To add to what Ryan said. It's also the cheapest! I'm actually surprised at how reasonably priced Nobul1 is, though in a way, i've never been quite sure why we pay more for a fabric that actually has less material…

Yes, i've thought that maybe the manufacturing process might be more involved, complex or require specialized machinery, but maybe it's more a numbers thing–supply–demand, less of it is sold, niche product, so higher price.

Ok, i think i officially need to take a break/vacation from here for awhile.

Jennifer,

I've compared the fabrics at home (Argon, Nobul-1, Impetus, 1.1oz ripstop nylon) and my impressions thus far have been:

Nobul-1: 10/10 softness, 10/10 weight, 8/10 durability, fairly translucent
Argon: 9.5/10 softness, 10/10 weight, 9/10 durability, slightly translucent
Impetus 1.1: 8.5/10 softness, 8/10 weight, 10/10 durability, barely translucent
1.1oz Ripstop: 6/10 softness, 8/10 weight, 10/10 durability, barely translucent

Argon would be my recommendation for a down bag…mostly because it has more color options and just feels a little bit more durable than Nobul and lighter than Impetus. I'll have a more valuable impression in a few weeks once I can test these out but for now, initial impressions is all I can offer.

Justin,

Stuff sack is to keep it protected from abrasion and water. I'll be using during hot nights without a bag, so I won't have a sleeping bag to store it with.

As far as pricing and availability…I spoke with the owner of Titanium Goat (I believe his name is Dave) about Nobul last year. He said that there are only a handful of manufacturers with the equipment to make fabric with such a low denier value. He was mostly speaking about why it's very difficult to find/buy comparable fabric (this was prior to Argon being sold at Dutchware).

+1 for Nobul-1!
as I said above I've used it for a light down summer quilt (inside & outside), also down jacket (inside) & winter down quilt (inside) and it has a luxurious light softness to it.

Not sure if down leakage problems people have experienced have been with Nobul-1 or Nobul-2, but with Nobul-1 I've used different batches (ordered about a year apart with slightly different opacities)) and seen very little leakage – the occasional tiny feather, but I used top grade 900+ down which looks to only have the occasional tiny feather in it…

Interesting insights in this thread on the Nobul 1. Aaron's concerns have me a bit worried about it for down, though it sounds fine for synthetic.

How translucent is it? Translucent enough to see Apex through it? How about stitching? If there was moisture build up on the other side of it (bear with me on that one…), could you see it?

(This mongrel quilt design I'm working on is going to be a super mongrel at this rate…).

Adam,

I have a 17 ounce quilt made with 12 ounces of 850 fill down.
It is Nobul-1 inside and M-50 outside.

When I wake up in the morning I have hundreds of down plume pieces all over me.
It's bad enough that I only use it with my bivy so I can turn it inside out.

There is literally a plume every square inch on me.
And it takes a while to get it off.

You also have to pat the bag down to get them out every night and another 100-200 plumes go all over the place when you do.