Odd wear on shoes

[Don A.]

I need to pick the collective experience out there. All of my trail runners develop a wear spot at the top inside area of the collar near the tongue. The photos should make it clear. They usually start showing wear after 100 miles or so. I don't step on them and any time I wear gators they're below that area. It's not a problem in terms of the shoes function but it is one of my life's mysteries that's on my bucket. Any ideas?

[Seth Brewer]

Just a guess – but I think your medial malleolus is rubbing that spot (that bone in the inside of your ankle)..which leads me to guess that perhaps you are overpronating too much (falling inward) and you need SuperFeet, SOLE insoles, or perhaps something more like an orthodic…or even switching to shoes that provide more medial support.

[Roger Caffin]

My biased but very strong opinion:
Never EVER try to alter how you walk. That way lies disaster.
Trying to 'correct' this with OTC orthotics or replacement insoles has a very high risk of causing injury. Just don't.

I have no concrete idea why this is happening, but I doubt it is going to affect the shoes very much. For this reason alone I suggest you should not worry. You may be brushing the sides of the shoes against each other – so what?

However, if it concerns you, try some DirtyGirl-style gaiters. You can buy them or you can make them. Lycra is rather abrasion-resistant.

Cheers

[Rob Lee]

This looks like repetitive abrasion from above and maybe not related to walking. Do you hook your shoe on something to take them off? Do you ride a bike and maybe rub something while pedaling? I'd look along those lines

[David Chenault]

I'd bet a sixer you're just brushing the wear point shown with the inside edge of the tread on your shoes as you stride forward. NBD in my book. I used to do that, but my stride changed a bit of its own accord when I went to more minimalist shoes, and I haven't done it since.

[Dustin Short]

Ankle chafage from your stride.

[Don A.]

Thanks for the responses. I've tried to apply the possible causes proposed but still have no definitive answer. The wear is directly on the top of the shoe collar with no apparent wear on the outside or inside of the shoe. This would make me think it's not a rubbing issue at the ankle or anywhere on the foot area. I tried moving my foot in every direction and can't get my ankle anywhere near the wear point.
I've never noticed any brushing of one shoe against another. I just tried to do that on purpose and can't manage it without doing contortions. Also you would think there would be a wear pattern at the side of the shoe besides the top and there is no evidence of it. As suggested it's not a big deal but idle curiosity has me wondering.
Below are some more pictures showing additional views and lack of wear on the inside as well as the outside of the collar.

[Cameron Habib]

Roger, I would strongly urge you to reconsider your opinion. Like eyes and glasses, not everyone's skeletal system is aligned as it should be, and as such, some correction is needed.

Don, I would suggest using what they do for ski boot fittings and grab some red lipstick. Put a thick coating on the area and go for a walk, checking to see where the lipstick comes off on. Wherever you find red is where there's wear.

[Daryl and Daryl]

Don, this is fun.

What's the prize for guessing right? We should know the answer shortly with the great lipstick suggestion.

How about the bottom of your pants/cuff as the cause?

[Don A.]

Ah yes, the old lipstick trick. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to try that. I'll need to run it by the wife beforehand lest I get in trouble with her wondering about me having a girlfriend with an off the wall fetish.
I do agree with some of what Roger said. The last time I had planter fasciitis the podiatrist prescribed Superfeet Blues. After the problem when away I continued to use the blues and even tried the greens and the oranges. One day the thought came into my head that I no longer had planter fasciitis so why was I using the superfeet. We're all born with feet that work pretty well for us unless there is some anatomical abnormality. I sometimes wonder if wearing inserts cause lazy/weak feet over time since they're supported to the point that they no longer have to work with every step to maintain proper position/balance. Totally non scientific thoughts.
I'll report back after the lipstick test.

RE: Dirty Girl gaiters. Someday I'll bring up the subject of odd wear patterns on mine (nowhere near the shoe wear area)!

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Don

The top photo is really diagnostic imho. My guess is that the edge of the sole of the other shoe at the region of the ball of the foot is brushing against the fabric sometimes. The dirt mark there is almost as good as lipstick.
If that's how your feet move when you are walking – fine. No problems apart from some wear – you don't need to 'correct' that action.

> not everyone's skeletal system is aligned as it should be, and as such, some correct
> is needed.
Cameron – we will have to agree to disagree. Imho, amateur (or even semi-pro) attempts to 'correct' someone's action really means trying to get them to do something which their body would not choose to do by itself. That puts bad strain on many joints. That sort of thinking is not endorsed by experienced professionals. I comment because I don't want to encourage self-injury.

Cheers

[Don A.]

Hummm. I don't know Daryl. Maybe the prize will be one of my latest and greatest hexamine stoves.
You do bring up a point. I hike in shorts more often than not but I'll put on my long pants just to see how they hang.

[Cameron Habib]

Roger, what I meant is more along the lines of getting a doctor or trained professional to assess and correct your stance (aka custom made inserts type work), not so much an off the rack Dr. Sholls type solution. I've skied at fairly high levels of competition, with and without corrective measures in place for my boots, and the difference is more than noticeable (fatigue, control, comfort) – the same is true for walking long distances. Improper stance can lead to uneven wear of cartilage in the hips and knees leading to arthritis and gross inflammation of the joint, etc. Though, at the end of the day, it all comes down to what works for you personally, and you're likely correct, that not doing anything is better than doing something and causing a new issue all together.

[Don A.]

I know everyone has been on pins and needles waiting for a further report on my shoe wear issue. Your wait is now over and you can all go on to more exciting issues.

I put some effort into analyzing my stride/walking/hiking on various trail types since my initial post and made a startling discovery, at least for me. Though convinced I wasn't rubbing one shoe against the other that did in fact turn out to be the case. It doesn't happen often but occasionally I would feel a slight rub while merrily walking down/and up the trail.

I thought the wear was on top of the shoe collar but it turns out it was on the side and just appeared to be on top. This is due to, for lack of a better description, tension on the collar padding collar that slips towards the shoe interior once worn through. Checking my gators I'm seeing similar wear I hadn't noticed before.

The attached pics are the same shoes shown in my initial post, only about 60 miles later.
Thanks to all who provided input. Another bucket list item crossed off.

[backpackerchick]

I came here looking for suggestions on this problem. My shoes get this after only a couple wears. I get it more on one shoe. It is from the side of the sole of the other shoe. I seek out neutral low profile shoes but it still seems to happen. The aggressive trail tread projects out a little on the medial side of the heel. (I do not have this problem with low profile road running shoes.) I would like to pre treat the area with something. But what? Super glue/crazy glue dry hard. What about things like Shoe goo or any of the McNett sealant products? Maybe it is possible to sand down the protrusion of tread on the medal side of the heel. I have noticed this protruding tread on just about all trail shoes. The first thing I do when I try them on is look how far the tread on the sole protrudes medially in the heel area and how sharp it is. For example, Saucony Peregrines are sharp in this area. I like this shoe other than damage it does to the cuff of the other shoe. (Never mind that the upper is not terribly durable anyway.) I think I need to avoid a marketing feature called “heel counter”!

 

[Roger Caffin]

I think I need to avoid a marketing feature called “heel counter”!

Maybe not so. In many cases, what ‘heel counter’ means is that bit of reinforcing inside the heel of a shoe. It’s shaped like a cupped hand – sort of. You need that bit of reinforcing if you don’t want to destroy the heel of your shoes in the first few hundred metres.

Cheers

 

[backpackerchick]

Heel counter is a stability feature. Touted to prevent over pronation. I try to steer clear of stability shoes. Short of the very minimalist shoes, it seems like trail running shoes have much more stability features than road running shoes. But I want some cushioning. Shoes in the 7-8 oz (213 gram) per shoe range in women’s 7.5.

Back to the problem of how to reinforce the side of the cuff before it gets ripped up by the sharp flared heel on some of these shoes. Seems to catch in the delicate fabric on the side of the cuff. I don’t catch it often but only the occasion catch will tear up the cuff pretty fast. I have tried duck tape after the fact.

[Todd Stough]

If you’re kicking your shoe I’d say work on picking your feet up higher.  Also maybe you have tightness some place drawing your foot in when you step..

[Jerry Adams]

My shoes wear out similarly, except at the rear.  And a normal lifetime of 100s of miles.  The rest of the shoe has more miles.

I took some McNett Seam Grip and smeared it on the area.  Let dry a couple days.  That seems to work pretty good.

Try it on one pair of shoes first to make sure it still feels okay.  I now have 4 pairs of revived shoes.

I put my Seam Grip in the freezer a couple years ago and it’s still good.  Take it out and let it warm up a few hours before use.  It would have been dried up by now otherwise.

[James holden]

as jerry said … seam grip

dont wait for it to get blown out … once theres some visible abrasion just coat the area

same with any other area or stitching that sees wear …

seam grip will extend the life of runners (except worn soles) quite a bit

;)

[backpackerchick]

Thank you! I will try the McNett.

Yes, wearing minimalist shoes, merrell gloves and the like, takes care of the problem. I prefer a bit more shoe for longer distances and a bit more aggressive tread in the mountains.

This isn’t a problem of mechanics. Nor is it a technical one. If one’s stance is narrow and the sole under the heel of the shoe is flared out and sharp, it can easily catch the delicate material on the cuff. Even occasional contact will quickly wear this delicate knit area. Over rough terrain, not every stride is perfectly symmetrical. This sort of wear doesn’t happen on a treadmill. It doesn’t happen with my Brooks Pure Flows that I wear on pavement. There are no sharp edges on the Pure Flows.

I too wreck the uppers long before there is any wear on the sole of the shoe. I have used seam grip on the outside of the shoe where it gets worn from edging rock. It helps. I will give it a try on the cuff material. I have used a small bit of duck tape on the cuff with some success.

Thanks again.

 

[backpackerchick]

I have also found that using a lace lock (employing that last hole), snugs the cuff up against foot and makes the cuff less vulnerable to catching on the sharp edges of the soles of trail runners. I go through phases with this. It find it difficult to adjust. Probably just need more practice.

See the lace lock/heel lock here.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/how-to/a15492/how-to-tie-running-shoes/

I tried AquaSeal tonight. Just happened to have some handy. The soft fabric of the cuff is quite absorbent. At the moment, it’s a sticky mess. I think the SeamGrip may be more satisfactory. Should have waited.

FYI, here’s a little comparison by McNett’s various sealing products for anyone interested:

https://mcnett.zendesk.com/entries/20998321-Aquaseal-vs-Seam-Grip-vs-Freesole

Thanks for your input! And thanks to the OP for starting this thread a while back.

PS. In response to the comment about “having tightness somewhere”, I have adequate range of motion for walking and running.

[James holden]

the various seals take at least a day, preferably several to dry properly

one trick is to use the sticky coughlan nylon patches and seam grip together if theres alot of wear

in fact that will just about repair anything from PU tents, to goretex jackets, to sleeping bags, to packs, to shoes

;)

[backpackerchick]

Thanks @bearbreeder:

Checked the shoes today. The delicate fabric in the cuff area is rough and hardened. I put another coat on to hoping to smooth it out a bit. I assume the sealant will soften up when I wear the shoes…after a few days of letting the adhesive cure.

I have used adhesives on the upper of the shoe, especially the outside edge that gets abraded on rock…as skurka describes. Works well. Question remains…will it work on very delicate absorbent fabric overlying foam? Maybe I will email skurka about this!

I am going to start properly lacing my shoes with the “lace lock” technique employing the last grommets. I am pretty lazy about this. This does keep the collar closer to the foot as well as keeping the heel more secure in the shoe.

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

when you apply the Seam Grip, try to smooth it with your finger.

It might make a surface that’s too rough and be uncomfortable.  Try one pair of shoes first and see if you like it, get the technique down.

Like Eric said, better to do it before it wears out and there’s a hole

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